Back to mechanical shifting and rim brakes: My journey

[Mr.Gib]

Perhaps because there is more pressure on your feet at a higher power output, the hands and ass take less of a beating. I notice the slower I ride, the more concerned I am about the padding of my saddle and bibs. When out with the local hammerfest I could probably ride a broomstick without discomfort.

I flat more often at higher speeds. I had to pump 25mm tubeless tires to 92/95psi just so my tires and rims would survive the pockmarked roads at the local races. There's no avoiding the kJ differences involved.

Ditto. Don't miss em

Well if you guys are racing and slamming into stuff you can't see in a peloton, than for sure pressure has to go up. But come to think of it, Paris Roubaix used to be ridden on tubulars in the 28mm range at high 50's low 60's psi. Perhaps you guys are super hard on you gear. I only ride the above mentioned bike on "off" days. Just cruising around on my own. I could probably manage 60 psi or less without issue. Horses for courses as they say. And we don't really have potholes here anyway.

[TobinHatesYou]

Well if you guys are racing and slamming into stuff you can't see in a peloton, than for sure pressure has to go up. But come to think of it, Paris Roubaix used to be ridden on tubulars in the 28mm range at high 50's low 60's psi. Perhaps you guys are super hard on you gear. I only ride the above mentioned bike on "off" days. Just cruising around on my own. I could probably manage 60 psi or less without issue. Horses for courses as they say. And we don't really have potholes here anyway.

That equipment got absolutely trashed by the end of those old editions (and still does.) Some prescient teams were switching to CX bikes with cantis and interrupters in the cobbled sectors. I could live with 25s for sure, but I give up basically nothing in going to 30-32mm. Personally I gain a ton of descending confidence as well. Arguably the people who aren't racing have the least to lose by going wider.

[warthog101]

I don't race anymore. Not too many negatives and some positives going wider. Comfort, grip and a bit more wear life, presumably due to the bigger contact patch.
I guess they are a touch heavier, so that is a negative

[Mr.Gib]

Well, my point was that rim brake users aren't automatically subject to a lack of comfort in the tire department. The vast majority of rim brake bikes can accomodate 28mm WAM. That size on 21mm internal can be run pretty low, particularely if going tubeless.

In fact a 28 WAM set, which is usually acheived with a 25ish mm tire on a 21mm internal rim, likely represents the vast majority of aero savy cyclists on 28mm rims. And I'd guess there are plenty more on 28mm wide rims than on 30mm+ rims.

[froze]

Well, my point was that rim brake users aren't automatically subject to a lack of comfort in the tire department. The vast majority of rim brake bikes can accomodate 28mm WAM. That size on 21mm internal can be run pretty low, particularely if going tubeless.

In fact a 28 WAM set, which is usually acheived with a 25ish mm tire on a 21mm internal rim, likely represents the vast majority of aero savy cyclists on 28mm rims. And I'd guess there are plenty more on 28mm wide rims than on 30mm+ rims.

Road bikes using single and dual-pivot and single-pivot brakes did have a max tire width of 28mm, but road bikes, like touring bikes, used cantilever brakes, and those brakes, and V brakes, could take any size tire that would fit into the fork and frame, but V brakes could take larger tires which is why they were found on MTBs.

So if a touring road bike could handle a 38mm tire then cantilevers would work, but back in the days that those brakes were found on touring bikes the max width tire you could find was 27x1 3/4 tire those are no longer made, and I think only Schwinn had them? but those were 44.5mm wide tire and they used cantilever brakes.

I've had both, cantilever and V brakes, everywhere on the internet they say V brakes are better and more powerful, which is a load of bunk. The V brakes felt more powerful because they pulled cable a lot smoother than Cantilever brakes, but braking power is all about the tire's adhesion to the pavement. The only reason my MTB with V Brakes could stop a tad faster than my vintage touring bike with cantilevers is that my touring bike had 27x1 1/4 which is about 31.5mm wide, while my MTB had 2" wide tires which were about 51mm wide, so the extra width of the tire had more rubber in contact with the pavement, thus the adhesion was higher.

[usr]

I've had both, cantilever and V brakes, everywhere on the internet they say V brakes are better and more powerful, which is a load of bunk.

Did you have them on the same frame though? With brakes that leverage against pivots on the frame, brake performance depends a lot on how much the frame gives. The brake can only ever press so hard against the rim as the frame resists before the levers bottom out. Those "brake booster" horseshoe monsters existed for a reason.

[keaton]

This thread is funny, and and echo chamber, but after riding all week on SR WRL, then the weekend on Record 12 mech I gotta chime in

campy 12s mechanical is such a solid group. I did not like it at all aesthetically when it was released, but now I love it. After riding electronic for several days/weeks, then going back to mechanical, I have to be one of the few people who really prefers mechanical. The tactile feeling is just so much better for me. And there is no way any groupset can shift down 3 gears at the speed I can with a campy thumb shifter. Out of the saddle, one swift motion, nothing can come close to that feel and speed.

[MarkMcM]

Well, my point was that rim brake users aren't automatically subject to a lack of comfort in the tire department. The vast majority of rim brake bikes can accomodate 28mm WAM. That size on 21mm internal can be run pretty low, particularely if going tubeless.

In fact a 28 WAM set, which is usually acheived with a 25ish mm tire on a 21mm internal rim, likely represents the vast majority of aero savy cyclists on 28mm rims. And I'd guess there are plenty more on 28mm wide rims than on 30mm+ rims.

Road bikes using single and dual-pivot and single-pivot brakes did have a max tire width of 28mm, but road bikes, like touring bikes, used cantilever brakes, and those brakes, and V brakes, could take any size tire that would fit into the fork and frame, but V brakes could take larger tires which is why they were found on MTBs.

Back in the day, before everyone became convinced that they had to have a racing bike (just like Lance's), road bikes typically had tires between 28mm (1 1/8") and 35mm (1 3/8"), and these bikes used standard reach single or dual pivot brakes. Back then, a "standard" reach brake is what we call a "medium" reach brake today, and only racing bikes used "short" reach brakes. Also back in the day, cantilever brakes weren't used just to fit larger than normal tires. Many bikes used full sized fenders, and catilevers made it easier to fit full sized fenders. (Of course, the reason that fenders disappeared is because Lance's bike didn't have fenders.)

[TobinHatesYou]

A profoundly American POV, but also Lemond had won three TdFs and had his own bike brand before LA won his first pro race. LA's influence is so dramatically overplayed, especially on a global scale.

Fenders/mudguards also didn't disappear around these parts, they never appeared in the first place because it doesn't rain much on this side of the country outside of the PNW.

[Nickldn]

This thread is funny, and and echo chamber, but after riding all week on SR WRL, then the weekend on Record 12 mech I gotta chime in

campy 12s mechanical is such a solid group. I did not like it at all aesthetically when it was released, but now I love it. After riding electronic for several days/weeks, then going back to mechanical, I have to be one of the few people who really prefers mechanical. The tactile feeling is just so much better for me. And there is no way any groupset can shift down 3 gears at the speed I can with a campy thumb shifter. Out of the saddle, one swift motion, nothing can come close to that feel and speed.

Echo chamber, yeah ok no one here has any experience of both mechanical and electronic groupsets, nor are they able to make up their own mind independently.

I hear you about Campy mechanical feedback and the ability to shift three cogs up with a flick of the thumb shifter, but sadly for the majority of riders there is more to a good groupset than this.

In the round electronic groupsets are preferred by many, due to consistent and predictable shifting every single time, as well as less maintenance to keep the shifting perfect over time (especially if you ride a high mileage).

I would also say something similar about disk brakes, consistent and predictable braking power every single time is really nice to have. I was on a ride yesterday and as the speeds drifted up in the afternoon (and I got a bit tired) it was great to have totally predictable shifting and braking.

You may valve different aspects of riding of course, and that's totally fine, but it's hard to deny just how good modern road bikes have become due to wider yet still fast tyres, disk brakes and electronic shifting. Oh I like carbon too, did I mention that?

[EugeneC]

In the round electronic groupsets are preferred by many, due to consistent and predictable shifting every single time, as well as less maintenance to keep the shifting perfect over time (especially if you ride a high mileage).

I would also say something similar about disk brakes, consistent and predictable braking power every single time is really nice to have. I was on a ride yesterday and as the speeds drifted up in the afternoon (and I got a bit tired) it was great to have totally predictable shifting and braking.

You may valve different aspects of riding of course, and that's totally fine, but it's hard to deny just how good modern road bikes have become due to wider yet still fast tyres, disk brakes and electronic shifting. Oh I like carbon too, did I mention that?

I understand the urge to make a case for electronics, discs and so on. But really, you don't have to. You could just let people enjoy their rimbrakes and mech shifting.

[nickf]

This thread is funny, and and echo chamber, but after riding all week on SR WRL, then the weekend on Record 12 mech I gotta chime in

campy 12s mechanical is such a solid group. I did not like it at all aesthetically when it was released, but now I love it. After riding electronic for several days/weeks, then going back to mechanical, I have to be one of the few people who really prefers mechanical. The tactile feeling is just so much better for me. And there is no way any groupset can shift down 3 gears at the speed I can with a campy thumb shifter. Out of the saddle, one swift motion, nothing can come close to that feel and speed.

Echo chamber, yeah ok no one here has any experience of both mechanical and electronic groupsets, nor are they able to make up their own mind independently.

I hear you about Campy mechanical feedback and the ability to shift three cogs up with a flick of the thumb shifter, but sadly for the majority of riders there is more to a good groupset than this.

In the round electronic groupsets are preferred by many, due to consistent and predictable shifting every single time, as well as less maintenance to keep the shifting perfect over time (especially if you ride a high mileage).

I would also say something similar about disk brakes, consistent and predictable braking power every single time is really nice to have. I was on a ride yesterday and as the speeds drifted up in the afternoon (and I got a bit tired) it was great to have totally predictable shifting and braking.

You may valve different aspects of riding of course, and that's totally fine, but it's hard to deny just how good modern road bikes have become due to wider yet still fast tyres, disk brakes and electronic shifting. Oh I like carbon too, did I mention that?

Fitness is faster. The bike has little to do with it. I see guys getting dumped all the time riding the latest and greatest. I'm happy enough riding away on my steel bike with 28s and rim brakes.

[froze]

Fenders/mudguards also didn't disappear around these parts, they never appeared in the first place because it doesn't rain much on this side of the country outside of the PNW.

Yup. I used to live and raced (amateur) in California, and it rarely rained, but even though I now live in Indiana, and I'll have to ride in the rain, very few people use fenders. The only bike I have that has a full set of fenders is my touring bike, and my x-commuter bike had just an ass saver for a fender, and no front fender.

[rollinslow]

This thread is funny, and and echo chamber, but after riding all week on SR WRL, then the weekend on Record 12 mech I gotta chime in

campy 12s mechanical is such a solid group. I did not like it at all aesthetically when it was released, but now I love it. After riding electronic for several days/weeks, then going back to mechanical, I have to be one of the few people who really prefers mechanical. The tactile feeling is just so much better for me. And there is no way any groupset can shift down 3 gears at the speed I can with a campy thumb shifter. Out of the saddle, one swift motion, nothing can come close to that feel and speed.

Push that thumb shifter a little further, I think it is 5 gears you can downshift. At least on SR12 mech. I love the SR12 mech groupset as well.

[MarkMcM]

A profoundly American POV, but also Lemond had won three TdFs and had his own bike brand before LA won his first pro race. LA's influence is so dramatically overplayed, especially on a global scale.

Here in the USA, the rise and fall in popularity of bike racing rose and fell directly in response to Armstrong's popularity. There were never as many members of USA Cycling or numbers of people participating in USAC races since before and during when Armstrong. The rise in race participation grew year on year until 2012 (when USADA delivered their doping sanctions), and then fell precipitously, dropping by 30% over a 5 year period. This has been refered to by many as the "Lance Affect".

https://www.tobedetermined.cc/journal/s ... ng-in-2019




There is no doubt that Lemond had a big influence within the US cycling community. But Armstrong's backstory (cancer survivor) had an impact on the wider population, bringing in people who otherwise might not have not been in the cycling community.