RIM BRAKE FRAMES = OBSOLETE!

[warthog101]

Bobones definitely just claimed his rim brakes modulate better than his disc brakes and that they are a joy to use, especially in wet conditions.

Whether it amounts to superior modulation is hard to say, but I do really think my rim brakes give better tactile feedback at the lever, and they are a comparative joy to use in the wet because they don't do this:



That was more or less every time I braked this morning and it wasn't even raining properly. Dreich we call this typical Scottish weather. It can get much worse than that and there's the constant grating and scraping noises made when grit gets stuck on the wet rotors and pads. So in the very conditions discs are meant to excel and be so superior, they're actually a pain in the arse.

Don't tell me it's my setup because you hear the same on every cross race or wet road race now. Yes, resin pads can be quieter (not the scraping though), but they last me less than 100 miles in these conditions.

Oh, and that's another thing: you can't really see the wear on the pads without taking them out the calipers, whereas rim brakes are easy to eyeball before every ride. This is definitely another safety aspect in favour of rim brakes.

While we're on the subject of safety, I'd better not mention Richard Branson boiling his brakes coming down a mountain and almost killing himself because he's another one who can't ride a bike properly. Perhaps we should sit a test before being allowed on disc brakes given how easy it is to do it wrong.

Then there's the additional weight, the extra costs, undeniabley trickier maintenance, ... but , but, it's progress damnit!

Finally, I have 30 mm tyres WAM 32 on rim brake bikes, tubeless at low pressures, so I'm not missing anything there either!

[Lina]

Bobones definitely just claimed his rim brakes modulate better than his disc brakes and that they are a joy to use, especially in wet conditions.

Whether it amounts to superior modulation is hard to say, but I do really think my rim brakes give better tactile feedback at the lever, and they are a comparative joy to use in the wet because they don't do this:



That was more or less every time I braked this morning and it wasn't even raining properly. Dreich we call this typical Scottish weather. It can get much worse than that and there's the constant grating and scraping noises made when grit gets stuck on the wet rotors and pads. So in the very conditions discs are meant to excel and be so superior, they're actually a pain in the arse.

Don't tell me it's my setup because you hear the same on every cross race or wet road race now. Yes, resin pads can be quieter (not the scraping though), but they last me less than 100 miles in these conditions.

Oh, and that's another thing: you can't really see the wear on the pads without taking them out the calipers, whereas rim brakes are easy to eyeball before every ride. This is definitely another safety aspect in favour of rim brakes.

While we're on the subject of safety, I'd better not mention Richard Branson boiling his brakes coming down a mountain and almost killing himself because he's another one who can't ride a bike properly. Perhaps we should sit a test before being allowed on disc brakes given how easy it is to do it wrong.

Then there's the additional weight, the extra costs, undeniabley trickier maintenance, ... but , but, it's progress damnit!

Finally, I have 30 mm tyres WAM 32 on rim brake bikes, tubeless at low pressures, so I'm not missing anything there either!

Did you select pads that howl on purpose for the video? Because I can make a video of carbon rims howling in the dry by setting them up for that.

[Juanmoretime]

I have both disc and rim brake for the road. I ride botth too. Never have my discs sound like that. Do I really prefer type one bike over the other. Yes although its not because of the braking system. I love my Litespped T3 since comared to my Blue AC-1, rim brake, I just feel more connected to the road on my T3.

[bobones]

Did you select pads that howl on purpose for the video? Because I can make a video of carbon rims howling in the dry by setting them up for that.

Don't be ridiculous. There is nothing I would like more than to have quiet disc brakes in the wet. Mine aren't bad when it's dry, but any moisture and they end up making noise. I've tried the stuff in this old article, but even they admit discs are inherently noisy in the wet.

Is there really a fix for this because the wet pro and cyclocross races I see are a cachophony too?

Seriously, if you or anyone else knows the secret of quiet disc brakes in the wet, I'd love to know. The stock AXS resin pads that came with the group weren't much better than the semi-metallic in the video, but they were worn out within a week, so it needs to be something that's reasonably economical.

I'll buy whatever it takes because I want my winter disc bike to be enjoyable to ride. I already appreciate being able to run fatter tyres with mudguards and carbon rims in winter, but the noise aspect kills the fun to a certain extent, especially when I can hop on one of my rim bikes and have perfectly adequate wet braking performance in my local terrain without the noise.

[ultimobici]

Did you select pads that howl on purpose for the video? Because I can make a video of carbon rims howling in the dry by setting them up for that.

Don't be ridiculous. There is nothing I would like more than to have quiet disc brakes in the wet. Mine aren't bad when it's dry, but any moisture and they end up making noise. I've tried the stuff in this old article, but even they admit discs are inherently noisy in the wet.

Is there really a fix for this because the wet pro and cyclocross races I see are a cachophony too?

Seriously, if you or anyone else knows the secret of quiet disc brakes in the wet, I'd love to know. The stock AXS resin pads that came with the group weren't much better than the semi-metallic in the video, but they were worn out within a week, so it needs to be something that's reasonably economical.

I'll buy whatever it takes because I want my winter disc bike to be enjoyable to ride. I already appreciate being able to run fatter tyres with mudguards and carbon rims in winter, but the noise aspect kills the fun to a certain extent, especially when I can hop on one of my rim bikes and have perfectly adequate wet braking performance in my local terrain without the noise.

The noise they are referring to is different to what I heard on the video. Yours sound like they have nothing behind the pads. Have you used copperslip behind the pads?

[bobones]

No copperslip on the pads in the video. I tried it with the previous set but it made no difference and i cleaned it off again.

Pads in the video are new, the rotors were cleaned with IPA and the brakes have been bedded in. If I drag the brakes to dry them, as i do in the middle of the video, they will go quiet for a short while, but as soon as some moisture gets in again they'll squeal.

Tell me what pads to buy and if anything else needs to be done and I'll try it.

[ultimobici]

What brakes are they ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobones]

SRAM Force AXS.

I'm looking at Swissstop RS 35 but I'm not sure if they're durable enough for wet/winter use and £50 for a full set is a bit spicy.

Swissstop E 35 are a a bit cheaper and more durable but not known for being quiet.

Gorilla brand pads look to be a cheaper option available in the UK, but I know little about them.

[eli76141]

Nobody is saying that it is a tech issue. Disc brakes brake better than rim, and the modulation is better. Period.

Nobody eh?

Exactly. Nobody says it's a tech issue.

[blutto]

Nobody is saying that it is a tech issue. Disc brakes brake better than rim, and the modulation is better. Period.

Nobody eh?

Exactly. Nobody says it's a tech issue.

....well yeah in theory the tech does in fact work, like the mechanism opens and closes in a fairly repeatable fashion, but the application of same has issues ( which I'm sure will be addressed in due time by some hot off the drawing board expensive solutions....which if everything follows the current script will produce more issues which will consequently require still more expensive solutions.....ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching...)

Cheers

[TobinHatesYou]

Exactly. Nobody says it's a tech issue.

bobones backed off the term modulation, but still claims disc brakes have worse “lever feel.”

blutto is even more specifically suggesting that braking forces traveling through deflecting, elongating, resonating spokes is causing a muted brake feel and/or lag.

[Mr.Gib]

bobones and blutto - how big are you guys? I have theory that under a certain weight, maybe under 140 or 150 lbs (65 - 68 kg) disc brakes are amazing but any heavier and the issues start to build. (Of course everyone deal with the noise in the wet.)

[TobinHatesYou]

Peak Torque destroys 180mm rotors in 3000km so there is also that.

[wheelsONfire]

Bobones definitely just claimed his rim brakes modulate better than his disc brakes and that they are a joy to use, especially in wet conditions.

Whether it amounts to superior modulation is hard to say, but I do really think my rim brakes give better tactile feedback at the lever, and they are a comparative joy to use in the wet because they don't do this:



That was more or less every time I braked this morning and it wasn't even raining properly. Dreich we call this typical Scottish weather. It can get much worse than that and there's the constant grating and scraping noises made when grit gets stuck on the wet rotors and pads. So in the very conditions discs are meant to excel and be so superior, they're actually a pain in the arse.

Don't tell me it's my setup because you hear the same on every cross race or wet road race now. Yes, resin pads can be quieter (not the scraping though), but they last me less than 100 miles in these conditions.

Oh, and that's another thing: you can't really see the wear on the pads without taking them out the calipers, whereas rim brakes are easy to eyeball before every ride. This is definitely another safety aspect in favour of rim brakes.

While we're on the subject of safety, I'd better not mention Richard Branson boiling his brakes coming down a mountain and almost killing himself because he's another one who can't ride a bike properly. Perhaps we should sit a test before being allowed on disc brakes given how easy it is to do it wrong.

Then there's the additional weight, the extra costs, undeniabley trickier maintenance, ... but , but, it's progress damnit!

Finally, I have 30 mm tyres WAM 32 on rim brake bikes, tubeless at low pressures, so I'm not missing anything there either!

Did you select pads that howl on purpose for the video? Because I can make a video of carbon rims howling in the dry by setting them up for that.

What a conclusion!
Jesus, ..... if you really think he did, i would seriously ask you to go ahead and make that video.

[blutto]

bobones and blutto - how big are you guys? I have theory that under a certain weight, maybe under 140 or 150 lbs (65 - 68 kg) disc brakes are amazing but any heavier and the issues start to build. (Of course everyone deal with the noise in the wet.)

....race weight was about 170 lb +/-....and still in the ball park....several hundred races under my belt....and over the years learned to be quite comfortable using the less contemporary older tech.....and yeah modulation was definitely a big issue when I wandered over to the dark side....

Cheers