My adventures in chain waxing: goals, reviews, suggestions...
Moderator: robbosmans
I have a new Shimano CN-HG901-11 chain and use CeramicSpeed UFO drip. Do you guys advice to do the complete chain prep as adviced by ZFC? Or just normal degreasing?
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... ise-v2.pdf
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... ise-v2.pdf
Road // 2023 S-Works Tarmac SL8 | Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 | Roval Rapide CLX
Gravel // 2023 Specialized Crux Pro | SRAM Force AXS | Roval Terra CL
Retired // 2022 S-Works Shiv TT // 2021 S-Works Tarmac SL7 // 2019 Specialized Allez Sprint Red Hook
Gravel // 2023 Specialized Crux Pro | SRAM Force AXS | Roval Terra CL
Retired // 2022 S-Works Shiv TT // 2021 S-Works Tarmac SL7 // 2019 Specialized Allez Sprint Red Hook
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I use CeramicSpeed UFO Clean method and like it so far, chains seem to be very clean. I am no expert though and have no idea what is going on inside the chain. But to me method with all the spirits and everything seems too complicated, that's why I went with UFO Clean. To me it's really easy.
I tried to buy MSW from the LBS, but they said they might not be able to get it until April. I'm thinking about homebrewing my own wax rather than waiting or paying the online premium for MSW+shipping. A few questions
1) A lot of people mention using Gulf wax. I found what appears to be a less expensive pure food grade parafin: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P9WC4L7/re ... =UTF8&th=1 Is there anything special about Gulf wax that I should spend a premium on?
2) I know PTFE powder has been traditionally been used as an additive, how about Tungsten Disulfide instead? https://www.amazon.com/tungsten-disulfi ... +disulfide How much should be added to the wax?
3) If I am going the DIY wax blend route, what about a DIY liquid wax to top off the chain between waxing as an alternative to CeramicSpeed UFO drip? Oz Cycling just posted a video using parafin, PTFE and Naptha (carrier). Again, I could omit or swap out the PTFE for Tungsten Disulfide.
1) A lot of people mention using Gulf wax. I found what appears to be a less expensive pure food grade parafin: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P9WC4L7/re ... =UTF8&th=1 Is there anything special about Gulf wax that I should spend a premium on?
2) I know PTFE powder has been traditionally been used as an additive, how about Tungsten Disulfide instead? https://www.amazon.com/tungsten-disulfi ... +disulfide How much should be added to the wax?
3) If I am going the DIY wax blend route, what about a DIY liquid wax to top off the chain between waxing as an alternative to CeramicSpeed UFO drip? Oz Cycling just posted a video using parafin, PTFE and Naptha (carrier). Again, I could omit or swap out the PTFE for Tungsten Disulfide.
Fairwheel bikes has it in stock and shipping is cheap through them.MrStop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:55 pmI tried to buy MSW from the LBS, but they said they might not be able to get it until April. I'm thinking about homebrewing my own wax rather than waiting or paying the online premium for MSW+shipping. A few questions
1) A lot of people mention using Gulf wax. I found what appears to be a less expensive pure food grade parafin: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P9WC4L7/re ... =UTF8&th=1 Is there anything special about Gulf wax that I should spend a premium on?
2) I know PTFE powder has been traditionally been used as an additive, how about Tungsten Disulfide instead? https://www.amazon.com/tungsten-disulfi ... +disulfide How much should be added to the wax?
3) If I am going the DIY wax blend route, what about a DIY liquid wax to top off the chain between waxing as an alternative to CeramicSpeed UFO drip? Oz Cycling just posted a video using parafin, PTFE and Naptha (carrier). Again, I could omit or swap out the PTFE for Tungsten Disulfide.
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Gulf Wax is $4 per lb at Wal Mart.MrStop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:55 pm1) A lot of people mention using Gulf wax. I found what appears to be a less expensive pure food grade parafin: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P9WC4L7/re ... =UTF8&th=1 Is there anything special about Gulf wax that I should spend a premium on?
Thanks for the tip. I was looking at Amazon and the pricing is silly.JaeOne3345 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:47 amGulf Wax is $4 per lb at Wal Mart.MrStop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:55 pm1) A lot of people mention using Gulf wax. I found what appears to be a less expensive pure food grade parafin: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P9WC4L7/re ... =UTF8&th=1 Is there anything special about Gulf wax that I should spend a premium on?
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No problem. Also, skip the additives. Over complicates the process for maybe half a watt if that.
Just get going with straight up Gulf Wax if you are just starting out. UFO Clean is worth it to make stripping chains easy and fast.
So much of the discussion in this thread over complicates this entire process IMO.
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JaeOne3345 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:56 amNo problem. Also, skip the additives. Over complicates the process for maybe half a watt if that.
Just get going with straight up Gulf Wax if you are just starting out. UFO Clean is worth it to make stripping chains easy and fast.
So much of the discussion in this thread over complicates this entire process IMO.
Can’t just buy any WS2 either. It has to be <1 micron. Plus WS2 and MoS2 turn the wax almost black. Use too much and you risk it clumping at a macroscopic level.
And all for what, less than a watt of savings at 250W.
I'm trying hot waxing after a groupset upgrade, with food grade paraffin melted in a silicon bag.
I rotate three chains (Sram Force AXS), that were degreased with UFO clean. I used them about 650 km each, mainly in dry conditions.
Today I re-applied hot wax for the first time the three used chains, after an immersion in boiling water to remove some black gunk. I was surprised that the wax turned dark grey after the three baths, even after it solidifies. Is it something I should expect ? I did not find a lot of pictures of what should look used plain wax, as many waxes from bike brands are black. Should I use a degreaser next time, to remove more of the black gunk before wax immersion ?
I rotate three chains (Sram Force AXS), that were degreased with UFO clean. I used them about 650 km each, mainly in dry conditions.
Today I re-applied hot wax for the first time the three used chains, after an immersion in boiling water to remove some black gunk. I was surprised that the wax turned dark grey after the three baths, even after it solidifies. Is it something I should expect ? I did not find a lot of pictures of what should look used plain wax, as many waxes from bike brands are black. Should I use a degreaser next time, to remove more of the black gunk before wax immersion ?
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My plain paraffin wax turns a light-medium gray...I wouldn't call it a dark gray.kenjif wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:57 pmI'm trying hot waxing after a groupset upgrade, with food grade paraffin melted in a silicon bag.
I rotate three chains (Sram Force AXS), that were degreased with UFO clean. I used them about 650 km each, mainly in dry conditions.
Today I re-applied hot wax for the first time the three used chains, after an immersion in boiling water to remove some black gunk. I was surprised that the wax turned dark grey after the three baths, even after it solidifies. Is it something I should expect ? I did not find a lot of pictures of what should look used plain wax, as many waxes from bike brands are black. Should I use a degreaser next time, to remove more of the black gunk before wax immersion ?
I'm less concerned about the marginal watt savings. As you say, it's negligable. Any meaningful improvements with the additives in reducing noise or wear and increasing application longevity? I'm a bit disapointed that zerofrictioncycling.com doesn't test pure parrafin as a control.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:23 amJaeOne3345 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:56 amNo problem. Also, skip the additives. Over complicates the process for maybe half a watt if that.
Just get going with straight up Gulf Wax if you are just starting out. UFO Clean is worth it to make stripping chains easy and fast.
So much of the discussion in this thread over complicates this entire process IMO.
Can’t just buy any WS2 either. It has to be <1 micron. Plus WS2 and MoS2 turn the wax almost black. Use too much and you risk it clumping at a macroscopic level.
And all for what, less than a watt of savings at 250W.
Wasn't that in the frictionfacts article that appeared in Velonews?MrStop wrote:I'm less concerned about the marginal watt savings. As you say, it's negligable. Any meaningful improvements with the additives in reducing noise or wear and increasing application longevity? I'm a bit disapointed that zerofrictioncycling.com doesn't test pure parrafin as a control.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:23 amJaeOne3345 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:56 amNo problem. Also, skip the additives. Over complicates the process for maybe half a watt if that.
Just get going with straight up Gulf Wax if you are just starting out. UFO Clean is worth it to make stripping chains easy and fast.
So much of the discussion in this thread over complicates this entire process IMO.
Can’t just buy any WS2 either. It has to be <1 micron. Plus WS2 and MoS2 turn the wax almost black. Use too much and you risk it clumping at a macroscopic level.
And all for what, less than a watt of savings at 250W.
I think those additives prevent wear and provide lubrication. They may also extend the life of the wax on the chain. Just looking at watts expended on a freshly waxed chain, not after like 100 miles where much of the wax has sloughed/worn off, is misleading.
I've been using MSW (WS2 formula) and am impressed with the life of the lube and quietness and smoothness of the chain.
Last edited by MikeD on Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You are correct that there was an old friction facts article (https://www.ceramicspeed.com/media/3505 ... mbined.pdf). It shows the slight power savings of the additives in the older MSW version. However, unless I missed it, no mention was made of differences in wear or application frequency as the new ZeroFriction testing does.
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I posted a response to someone's comment about ZF testing Gulf Wax in a youtube video (https://youtu.be/qGbIqn0Ks_w). The commenter had already reached out to ZF and said testing of pure paraffin in the works.