About Cervelo S5 2023

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cajer
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

In an interview on the new turbulent reserve wheels they talked about the new s5 for a minute of two. Sounds like it's ready. I imagine that's part of the reason there's not more info on the new wheels, they were waiting to do presses releases on both at the same time.

I had thought the new s5 would drop at eurobike, but that didn't happen.

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justkeepedaling
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am

by justkeepedaling

ODC wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:58 am
I wonder when they are going to announce the new cervelo S5. There it's taking such a long time you would begin to think that the model where Wout Van Aert is riding with isn't a new model but just a sort of custom bike for him.
The whole team is on the new S5 frame, though, in all different sizes. It's just the latest trend, bikes are ridden way before available in the market due to logistics. Would love to know more though, they're winning everything on this S5

justkeepedaling
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am

by justkeepedaling

cajer wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:19 pm
In an interview on the new turbulent reserve wheels they talked about the new s5 for a minute of two. Sounds like it's ready. I imagine that's part of the reason there's not more info on the new wheels, they were waiting to do presses releases on both at the same time.

I had thought the new s5 would drop at eurobike, but that didn't happen.
Link to video?

edit: found it

https://youtu.be/46pCtym5tP8

Interesting that they tested the S5 prototype with the wheels.

FM125, Size 56, 1000 g is what is written on that downtube, but I think that's the old frame design

cajer
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

justkeepedaling wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:35 pm
cajer wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:19 pm
In an interview on the new turbulent reserve wheels they talked about the new s5 for a minute of two. Sounds like it's ready. I imagine that's part of the reason there's not more info on the new wheels, they were waiting to do presses releases on both at the same time.

I had thought the new s5 would drop at eurobike, but that didn't happen.
Link to video?

edit: found it

https://youtu.be/46pCtym5tP8

Interesting that they tested the S5 prototype with the wheels.

FM125, Size 56, 1000 g is what is written on that downtube, but I think that's the old frame design
That's the old frame. There's a podcast on cycling tips. But anyways as an engineer I don't really buy the whole turbulent air optimization. It's not new, has been done for a long time in other fields. But It'll generally make things more stable rather than much faster, and as someone who started off using a 70mm from wheel in 2013 I don't think it matters that much.

Also the air the front wheel sees is mostly clean expect when drafting and at that point wheel aero doesn't really matter much anymore. Plus the rear wheel is so hidden that rear wheel aero doesn't matter much either. Either way at the end of the day where aero matters most is when you're off the front and there, air is mostly clean.

What I would be interested in seeing is how the flows looking for the wheel looks during cyclic changes to yaw in the 1-2 degree range (from steering inputs) and optimizing around that.

Where their moped setup is likely to be more useful is in bike design to validate some cfd or wind tunnel data of flow behind the rider.

justkeepedaling
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am

by justkeepedaling

cajer wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:58 pm
justkeepedaling wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:35 pm
cajer wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:19 pm
In an interview on the new turbulent reserve wheels they talked about the new s5 for a minute of two. Sounds like it's ready. I imagine that's part of the reason there's not more info on the new wheels, they were waiting to do presses releases on both at the same time.

I had thought the new s5 would drop at eurobike, but that didn't happen.
Link to video?

edit: found it

https://youtu.be/46pCtym5tP8

Interesting that they tested the S5 prototype with the wheels.

FM125, Size 56, 1000 g is what is written on that downtube, but I think that's the old frame design
That's the old frame. There's a podcast on cycling tips. But anyways as an engineer I don't really buy the whole turbulent air optimization. It's not new, has been done for a long time in other fields. But It'll generally make things more stable rather than much faster, and as someone who started off using a 70mm from wheel in 2013 I don't think it matters that much.

Also the air the front wheel sees is mostly clean expect when drafting and at that point wheel aero doesn't really matter much anymore. Plus the rear wheel is so hidden that rear wheel aero doesn't matter much either. Either way at the end of the day where aero matters most is when you're off the front and there, air is mostly clean.

What I would be interested in seeing is how the flows looking for the wheel looks during cyclic changes to yaw in the 1-2 degree range (from steering inputs) and optimizing around that.

Where their moped setup is likely to be more useful is in bike design to validate some cfd or wind tunnel data of flow behind the rider.
I'm an aero engineer. Yeah, agreed, the flow for the front wheel is mostly clean. But I think some turbulence input in the freestream is more accurate, especially at these lower Reynolds numbers (compared to cars and planes). I personally wouldn't expect it to change much in overall ranking of design, but perhaps in magnitude of drag. It could be useful for optimizing the overall system with the fork and headtube.

For me at my weight (and lack of handling skills), I get blown around even on my C24 wheels. So I could use all the help I can get in wheel stability.

I had an email chat with Phil a long time ago (like 2007) about fork position sensitivity with Bayonnet fork designs when Felt was using that and P3's weren't. Even had ideas of active fork geometry back then to shield the legs in variable wind conditions or in yaw

Karvalo
Posts: 3444
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

justkeepedaling wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:25 pm
For me at my weight (and lack of handling skills), I get blown around even on my C24 wheels. So I could use all the help I can get in wheel stability.
That's skill and confidence, not weight. I work with someone who's 4'11" and happily races an 80mm front in most conditions.

Shallow wheels also aren't necessarily that great in crosswinds. Sharp edge C24s have had no though whatsoever go into the handling effects of the rim shape. Someone at ENVE once wrote about it either in an interview or blog post - that deeper wheels release turbulent flow more smoothly and at a lower frequency than shallow. His point was that while a 7.8 or similar will have more ultimate side force than a 3.4, the 3.4 could still be a less confidence inspiring ride because it'll feel like it's hitting sharper and more frequent gusts.

cajer
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

justkeepedaling wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:25 pm
cajer wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:58 pm
justkeepedaling wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:35 pm
cajer wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:19 pm
In an interview on the new turbulent reserve wheels they talked about the new s5 for a minute of two. Sounds like it's ready. I imagine that's part of the reason there's not more info on the new wheels, they were waiting to do presses releases on both at the same time.

I had thought the new s5 would drop at eurobike, but that didn't happen.
Link to video?

edit: found it

https://youtu.be/46pCtym5tP8

Interesting that they tested the S5 prototype with the wheels.

FM125, Size 56, 1000 g is what is written on that downtube, but I think that's the old frame design
That's the old frame. There's a podcast on cycling tips. But anyways as an engineer I don't really buy the whole turbulent air optimization. It's not new, has been done for a long time in other fields. But It'll generally make things more stable rather than much faster, and as someone who started off using a 70mm from wheel in 2013 I don't think it matters that much.

Also the air the front wheel sees is mostly clean expect when drafting and at that point wheel aero doesn't really matter much anymore. Plus the rear wheel is so hidden that rear wheel aero doesn't matter much either. Either way at the end of the day where aero matters most is when you're off the front and there, air is mostly clean.

What I would be interested in seeing is how the flows looking for the wheel looks during cyclic changes to yaw in the 1-2 degree range (from steering inputs) and optimizing around that.

Where their moped setup is likely to be more useful is in bike design to validate some cfd or wind tunnel data of flow behind the rider.
I'm an aero engineer. Yeah, agreed, the flow for the front wheel is mostly clean. But I think some turbulence input in the freestream is more accurate, especially at these lower Reynolds numbers (compared to cars and planes). I personally wouldn't expect it to change much in overall ranking of design, but perhaps in magnitude of drag. It could be useful for optimizing the overall system with the fork and headtube.

For me at my weight (and lack of handling skills), I get blown around even on my C24 wheels. So I could use all the help I can get in wheel stability.

I had an email chat with Phil a long time ago (like 2007) about fork position sensitivity with Bayonnet fork designs when Felt was using that and P3's weren't. Even had ideas of active fork geometry back then to shield the legs in variable wind conditions or in yaw
I agree with fork/wheel/downtube/headtube interactions and optimizing around that. However it's quite different for each bike with some hugging the downtube while others having a gap between the downtube/wheel or down tube and fork legs and same with headtube. So what we might end up with is a new S5 (not this 2023 one which is stated to not use turblent desgin) around the Reserve wheels.

I also agree with the fact that some likely quite small turbulence input in the freestream is accurate (espically as yaw angles seen at small meaning generally low wind speeds), but am uncertain it will lead to more changes in wheel design to make them faster rather than more stable.

What ideas did you have around active fork geometry?

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Stendhal
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Location: Silicon Valley

by Stendhal

The new S5 has been announced officially, it's on the Cervelo website with Action Dynamic Video and the imprimatur of Wout, Mariane Vos, Laporte
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mrlobber
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

The press articles state that the potential damage to the head tube is not present anymore, so it looks like they've moved away from the internal fork turning limit stop. Have they indeed?

Also, another example of proprietary stuff not being carried forward - even though the stem and bars look almost similar to the outgoing version, the old stuff is apparently incompatible with the new fork.
Minimum bike categories required in the stable:
Aero bike | GC bike | GC rim bike | Climbing bike | Climbing rim bike | Classics bike | Gravel bike | TT bike | Indoors bike

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Gran Fondo cycling reviewed it and apparently their stock bike is 7,50kg with Ultegra 8100 (no pedals, cages, mount). Considering it comes with 28c tires and wide and deep wheels, that is pretty good.
Lighter tires, a light aero wheelset (sub 1400g), a Darimo seatpost, lighter saddle and 9200 and your likely close to 7kg for a full build
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

pmprego
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

Bikeradar.com has an article on it. 34mm measured width clearance. Kudos cervelo!!

Nice to see brands going for interesting clearances.

ichobi
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

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mrlobber
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:06 am
Gran Fondo cycling reviewed it and apparently their stock bike is 7,50kg with Ultegra 8100 (no pedals, cages, mount).
James bike @ Cyclingtips size L was 8.03kg Ultegra Di2 without pedals. I'd tend to believe this number more.
Minimum bike categories required in the stable:
Aero bike | GC bike | GC rim bike | Climbing bike | Climbing rim bike | Classics bike | Gravel bike | TT bike | Indoors bike

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Yeah, that's a lot more what I thought it would be...
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

by Weenie


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mrlobber
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Also, I wonder what default stem lengths and bar widths does the bike come with depending on size. Dare we hope that the default handlebar width C-C is 40cm or less?
Minimum bike categories required in the stable:
Aero bike | GC bike | GC rim bike | Climbing bike | Climbing rim bike | Classics bike | Gravel bike | TT bike | Indoors bike

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