Wahoo vs Elite trainers ride feel

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cnsn
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2023 7:56 pm

by cnsn

Hello,

I own Elite Justo and before the justo I was a Direto x user. I didn't use wahoo trainers in the past. Do you think is there a noticable difference in ride feel between Wahoo and Elite trainers?
Last edited by cnsn on Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I hated the "road feel" of the KICKRv5 and the I doubt the KICKRv6 is any different. My favorite trainers for road feel were the Saris units, but I wouldn't buy them now.

As of 2024, only the KICKRv5 and newer, KICKR Bike 1 and 2, KICKR Bike Shift, Tacx Neo series, Tacx Neo Bike and Elite Justo will be allowed in major Zwift racing events, if that's something that is important to you.

AJS914
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by AJS914

I thought the Tacx trainers had the best road feel.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

AJS914 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:55 am
I thought the Tacx trainers had the best road feel.

Without a real flywheel, it's pretty hard to fake the inertia by pulsing the motor against the resistance unit. Some people notice it, some don't.

AJS914
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by AJS914

I was referring to the way the Tacx can simulate road surfaces in Zwift or other apps.

Personally, I've never had a trainer that felt like the road. I have a Kickr v2 which suits my purposes. I'm not as particular as the OP with regards to 'road feel'.

warthog101
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by warthog101

...

cnsn
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by cnsn

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:25 am
I hated the "road feel" of the KICKRv5 and the I doubt the KICKRv6 is any different. My favorite trainers for road feel were the Saris units, but I wouldn't buy them now.

As of 2024, only the KICKRv5 and newer, KICKR Bike 1 and 2, KICKR Bike Shift, Tacx Neo series, Tacx Neo Bike and Elite Justo will be allowed in major Zwift racing events, if that's something that is important to you.
Can you provide more details about why you don't like it?

cnsn
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by cnsn

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 4:01 am
AJS914 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:55 am
I thought the Tacx trainers had the best road feel.

Without a real flywheel, it's pretty hard to fake the inertia by pulsing the motor against the resistance unit. Some people notice it, some don't.
This is one of the reasons that I don't shortlist the tacx neo, of course there is a price factor too. I have some doubts about the simulated flywheel. It can be great or poor compared to physical flywheel in terms of ride feel :) I would love to test it, but unfortunately there is no one around me who owns a tacx neo that I can borrow for testing (no one has a kickr too :? ).

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ms6073
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by ms6073

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 4:01 am
AJS914 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:55 am
I thought the Tacx trainers had the best road feel.
Without a real flywheel, it's pretty hard to fake the inertia by pulsing the motor against the resistance unit. Some people notice it, some don't.
I thought Tacx introduced road feel for Smart Trainers?
Feel Every Imperfection
Road feel was developed by Tacx to accurately recreate the sensations of riding over a variety of road surfaces. Designed exclusively for our NEO line of trainers, a permanent motor works with smart electronics to produce those different feelings. The exact position of all rotating parts on the smart trainer are controlled 1,000 times per second, resulting in supreme precision and control.

It’s this precision that allows us to recreate the subtle imperfections and textures of a variety of surfaces. Road feel imitates it all with amazing accuracy by producing vibrations of varying intensities.

The result is a home training experience that was never achievable before. One that provides a completely immersive ride, where the physical bodily sensations match what is visually represented by the software.

With road feel you can now experience those unforgiving cobbled segments of the Classics with amazing realism, all without running the risk of breaking your bike.
Wife and I had been riding the original Tacx Neo, but I took advantage of the sale price on the Neo 2T after Tacx released the 3M and have to say that the road feel demo was good on the v1 but is very realistic on the 2T, especially the crossing the cattle guard as we have a lot of those out to the west of town.
- Michael
"People should stop expecting normal from me... seriously, we all know it's never going to happen"

cnsn
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2023 7:56 pm

by cnsn

To prevent confusion I have changed the title of the topic. By 'road feel' or 'ride feel' I emphasize inertia, smoothness of resistance changes, quality of the pedalling feedback for different cadence and resistance levels and etc. I don't interest in the surface simulation feature of tacx trainers. Specifically I am asking about the ride feel differences between elite and wahoo trainers. Thanks.

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ms6073
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by ms6073

I am partial to the Tacx Neo especually since you could get the Neo 2T for 1/2 off last month. That said, if you put out high power numbersm the design of the Tacx is probably not for you but I have always felt that trainers that depend on belt drives are never going to be able to run as smooth as Tacx's direct drive trainers.
- Michael
"People should stop expecting normal from me... seriously, we all know it's never going to happen"

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

cnsn wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:10 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:25 am
I hated the "road feel" of the KICKRv5 and the I doubt the KICKRv6 is any different. My favorite trainers for road feel were the Saris units, but I wouldn't buy them now.

As of 2024, only the KICKRv5 and newer, KICKR Bike 1 and 2, KICKR Bike Shift, Tacx Neo series, Tacx Neo Bike and Elite Justo will be allowed in major Zwift racing events, if that's something that is important to you.
Can you provide more details about why you don't like it?

It just feels like the brake power is too high for any given gradient. On a 0% grade in Zwift, I’m forced to ride in a lower gear ratio, which slows the flywheel and makes it feel more like a false flat. Adjusting TD doesn’t matter since it doesn’t affect a 0% gradient.

cnsn
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2023 7:56 pm

by cnsn

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 11:30 am
cnsn wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:10 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:25 am
I hated the "road feel" of the KICKRv5 and the I doubt the KICKRv6 is any different. My favorite trainers for road feel were the Saris units, but I wouldn't buy them now.

As of 2024, only the KICKRv5 and newer, KICKR Bike 1 and 2, KICKR Bike Shift, Tacx Neo series, Tacx Neo Bike and Elite Justo will be allowed in major Zwift racing events, if that's something that is important to you.
Can you provide more details about why you don't like it?

It just feels like the brake power is too high for any given gradient. On a 0% grade in Zwift, I’m forced to ride in a lower gear ratio, which slows the flywheel and makes it feel more like a false flat. Adjusting TD doesn’t matter since it doesn’t affect a 0% gradient.
I have the same problem with Elite Justo. It seems the heavier flywheel doesn't mean better. Probably trainer companies knows this but they are still promoting heavier flywheels as selling point even the users would not be happy with it. Maybe I should think about to buy a trainer with a little bit lighter flywheel which can be more close to optimal / real world feel.

cnsn
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2023 7:56 pm

by cnsn

Elite Justo feels harder on the flats and descents compared to climbs. I mean percieved effort for same watts is harder on flats and I was thinking that it might be about wrong power calculations on climbs and descents and I applied some tests against favero duos and stages left pms but I didn't see any issues. I realized that my cadence is around 10 to 15 rpm higher (~95 rpm) than climbs on flats and descents. This maybe the reason and I am just trying to get used to it.
Last edited by cnsn on Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

by Weenie


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EdWiser
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:50 pm

by EdWiser

The big problem here is that power is reported different by different sources. As they all have their own power equations.

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