Can I do all my zone2 in other activities or does it have to be on the bike?

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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maurice1
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:51 pm
Location: Jura

by maurice1

Yes, it's time to beat the dead horse again. The question seems stupid but every thread I see has 50% "are you stupid? of course you can" and 50% "what a dumb question. absolutely not"

Does anyone have a clear and possibly backed answer to that question? Does zone 2 (hr) running/hiking/swimming/whatever count towards fitness goal progress for the bike, or does it have to be done on the bike to count?

mrlobber
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by mrlobber

What kind of "fitness goals" are we talking about here?

Yes, any kind of endurance-focused physical activity will contribute to cycling fitness (and vice versa). Will it be the "optimal" way (time invested to achieve maximum possible fitness under the conditions mentioned for the specific sport)? Likely not, but the differences on amateur level will likely be minimal enough not to care. Also, all "rigorous" endurance exercise improves fitness, except the one which you didn't do (in Z2 you can't overtrain unless your Z2 is set wrong or you're doing pro level mileage along with stressful life).

That is all because in endurance sports, the major limiter of performance for just about any of us is the cardiovascular system - the better it is, the faster you'll be able to go. So if you have time, invest it there, generally, upping the frequency first, duration second, intensity third. Move a lot, and you'll be fine compared to 95% of others who don't. Everything else contributes to fine-tuning the last couple of percent of performance and avoiding sports-specific injury (which by all means is really important too).
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maurice1
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:51 pm
Location: Jura

by maurice1

mrlobber wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 10:19 am
What kind of "fitness goals" are we talking about here?

Yes, any kind of endurance-focused physical activity will contribute to cycling fitness (and vice versa). Will it be the "optimal" way (time invested to achieve maximum possible fitness under the conditions mentioned for the specific sport)? Likely not, but the differences on amateur level will likely be minimal enough not to care. Also, all "rigorous" endurance exercise improves fitness, except the one which you didn't do (in Z2 you can't overtrain unless your Z2 is set wrong or you're doing pro level mileage along with stressful life).

That is all because in endurance sports, the major limiter of performance for just about any of us is the cardiovascular system - the better it is, the faster you'll be able to go. So if you have time, invest it there, generally, upping the frequency first, duration second, intensity third. Move a lot, and you'll be fine compared to 95% of others who don't. Everything else contributes to fine-tuning the last couple of percent of performance and avoiding sports-specific injury (which by all means is really important too).
Would like to get back to or even surpass 4w/kg FTP from 2.9ish right now for next year. Maybe I'm just looking for excuses but I moved to a *very* hilly and rainy area and my fitness dropped because I don't have the will to do short sessions(plus 6 months off after an injury). I usually get 2x 3-4 hour rides per week when the weather allows it (had 3 weeks of 8°C+ weather this year so far). I don't even do short sessions anymore because every ride needs to end with 8km@6% (or 4.3@11% :mrgreen: ) that I don't enjoy to get home. I had a home trainer last winter but I hated it more than that climb in the rain. I do a lot of hiking because it's easier to get 2 hours at an easy pace than on the bike and I was wondering if that helped my base endurance

otnemem
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

Do you want to improve your all-around fitness or become a faster cyclist? If a) it makes no difference what you do. If b) specificity is key.

Another completely different question is why Z2. If it because you can't fit any more intensity volume without burning yourself? Or is it because you believe more Z2 instead of intensity is better for you?

maurice1
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:51 pm
Location: Jura

by maurice1

otnemem wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 10:42 am
Do you want to improve your all-around fitness or become a faster cyclist? If a) it makes no difference what you do. If b) specificity is key.

Another completely different question is why Z2. If it because you can't fit any more intensity volume without burning yourself? Or is it because you believe more Z2 instead of intensity is better for you?
I want to be a faster cyclist specifically. (not racing, not crits, just better at long endurance rides and the occasional mountain segment) I don't take any other sport seriously enough to want to improve in those
I'm not sure why Z2. Maybe I should have questioned it but I don't know anything about science so I'm just blindly believing all those articles and videos that stress the importance of Z2 for everyone and at all costs

Singular
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

by Singular

I can vouch only for myself, but I did improve dramatically as a cyclist from pushing a pram a few hours every day during a year of parental leave. Dadlife basemiles.

otnemem
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

maurice1 wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 10:47 am
otnemem wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 10:42 am
Do you want to improve your all-around fitness or become a faster cyclist? If a) it makes no difference what you do. If b) specificity is key.

Another completely different question is why Z2. If it because you can't fit any more intensity volume without burning yourself? Or is it because you believe more Z2 instead of intensity is better for you?
I want to be a faster cyclist specifically. (not racing, not crits, just better at long endurance rides and the occasional mountain segment) I don't take any other sport seriously enough to want to improve in those
I'm not sure why Z2. Maybe I should have questioned it but I don't know anything about science so I'm just blindly believing all those articles and videos that stress the importance of Z2 for everyone and at all costs
Then it's fairly established science that cycling is superior improve cycling fitness. I believe next would be XC skiing and then running/jogging/walking.

Don't blindly believe anything. There's nothing special about Z2. Z2 is the best choice when you can no longer add whatever intensity fits your plan without overtraining.
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Also listen to episode "Ten Minute Tips #25" (Dec 5th 2022) of The Empirical Cycling Podcast.

Singular
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

by Singular

otnemem wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 11:05 am

Don't blindly believe anything. There's nothing special about Z2. Z2 is the best choice when you can no longer add whatever intensity fits your plan without overtraining.
Yeah, but first of all that ceiling is pretty low (at least for me, when age, life, kids and all is making the recovery/intensity loops longer and longer - thrice a week and I'm at my limit) and second volume is not irrelevant for endurance - the pure number of hours on the move is a limiting factor for my performance and surely many others.

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

maurice1 wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 10:40 am
Would like to get back to or even surpass 4w/kg FTP from 2.9ish right now for next year. Maybe I'm just looking for excuses but I moved to a *very* hilly and rainy area and my fitness dropped because I don't have the will to do short sessions(plus 6 months off after an injury). I usually get 2x 3-4 hour rides per week when the weather allows it (had 3 weeks of 8°C+ weather this year so far). I don't even do short sessions anymore because every ride needs to end with 8km@6% (or 4.3@11% :mrgreen: ) that I don't enjoy to get home. I had a home trainer last winter but I hated it more than that climb in the rain. I do a lot of hiking because it's easier to get 2 hours at an easy pace than on the bike and I was wondering if that helped my base endurance

You need higher frequency and consistency. If you want to be fast again, think 5x per week. It sounds like you don't ride when the weather doesn't cooperate.

I'd try to sort out your indoor training routine. I used to absolutely hate indoor training but then I got a Kicker (wheel off) trainer, a good space, AC, good fans, a trainer desk. When I get on the trainer, I don't just ride. That's super boring. I have to have a plan like some tempo or threshold intervals or over/unders. I'm usually (loosely) following some kind of progression. I'll do an 60-90 minutes on the trainer.

With a workout in mind and a tv show to binge watch on my laptop, I actually enjoy indoor training a lot these days.

I do think you can use swimming, hiking, running, etc. to make up a lot of your easy endurance volume but when you get on the bike you may need to focus on tempo/threshold or VO2 intervals.

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rowdyyy
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:26 pm

by rowdyyy

Speaking from a load managment perspective its more efficient to do Z2 on the bike and do your HIT/Vo2 intervalls running.
Doing loads of Z2 whilst running takes a bigger hit on joints, muscles and so on. The bike is quite linear, after all its a seated excercise.

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