Consistently doing >100 TSS/hr & NP way above FTP

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

Moderator: Moderator Team

cheapvega
Posts: 388
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

I know what you're thinking.... "retest your FTP!!!"

I have many times over the years. I just think my combo of low fitness and the spiky rolling hill rides I do are at the extreme ends of the model. Like on my last ride within each 7 mile lap had maybe 2 miles near or below threshold and then 5 miles of 2-3x FTP sprints up grades with coasting down said grades. Mathematically that kind of checks out (~130-150TSS/hr, NP = ~125-130% of FTP) but with these kinds of rides being the bread and butter where I live I'm wondering what I can do to train specifically for them (outside of just continuing to ride on them)

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



BdaGhisallo
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

Try posting your question in the Google Wattage group. You might get some good feedback there.

https://groups.google.com/g/wattage

Bazzman1968
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat May 06, 2023 3:03 am

by Bazzman1968

Retest your ftp, can't be correct.

Baz

bobones
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

cheapvega wrote:
Sun May 07, 2023 2:44 am
I know what you're thinking.... "retest your FTP!!!"

I have many times over the years. I just think my combo of low fitness and the spiky rolling hill rides I do are at the extreme ends of the model. Like on my last ride within each 7 mile lap had maybe 2 miles near or below threshold and then 5 miles of 2-3x FTP sprints up grades with coasting down said grades. Mathematically that kind of checks out (~130-150TSS/hr, NP = ~125-130% of FTP) but with these kinds of rides being the bread and butter where I live I'm wondering what I can do to train specifically for them (outside of just continuing to ride on them)
Have you ever tried Xert? Sign up for the trial, dump all your rides from Strava, and look that the numbers it comes up with for your threshold, peak power and HIE. Do they make sense? Analyse the rides you want to train for. What is their 'focus' in Xert terms? To train specifically for these rides, just do other rides with a similar 'focus'. (You need a Garmin Edge or Hammerhead Karoo 2 to get the Xert numbers in real time during a ride, but it's not strictly necessary to have this to use the program).

Andrew69
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am
Location: ɹǝpunuʍop

by Andrew69

Bazzman1968 wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 1:16 pm
Retest your ftp, can't be correct.

Baz
It can, but it would really be an outlier

When I first got into cycling, I was still lifting weights (a LOT) which meant I had a very low FTP, but fastantic anaerobic power (like <180w FTP, but >2000w 5 sec sprint power)

cheapvega
Posts: 388
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

@bobones I tried Xert but wasn't crazy about it. I forget what the focus was from these rides. I use intervals.icu.

@Andrew69 that is my background as well. My #s are nowhere near as impressive but here is my power curve from all rides over the last ~3 months.

Image

Not sure what the flatness of the curve from 5 minutes on indicates. It does include some max efforts. Part of it is the rolling hills here prompt surging but I also feel like I've trained around that riding style.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

cheapvega wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 2:31 pm
@bobones I tried Xert but wasn't crazy about it. I forget what the focus was from these rides. I use intervals.icu.

@Andrew69 that is my background as well. My #s are nowhere near as impressive but here is my power curve from all rides over the last ~3 months.

Image

Not sure what the flatness of the curve from 5 minutes on indicates. It does include some max efforts. Part of it is the rolling hills here prompt surging but I also feel like I've trained around that riding style.

This is what I am focusing on in your MMPC screenshot:

- A 39ml/kg/min VO2max is that of a virtually untrained / sedentary individual
- You MMPC has a very sharp decline and is fairly jagged, so you don't have enough data points at various interval lengths nor do I believe these are maximal efforts.
- A TTE of 28min is unrealistically low. We almost never see people with <30min TTE and most people are safely >35min. Again this suggests that there isn't enough quality data to go on.

If you want a better understanding of your capabilities, you're going to have to try harder. Do 15s all out. Do 60s all out. Do 5 minutes all out. Do 20-30 minutes all out.

In short, your >100 TSS and >1.0 IF are bogus because there's no way your other metrics are that low unless you're a literal potato.

user83843
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:14 pm
Location: Idaho

by user83843

Maybe try the 2x8min regimen. Muliply avg watts by .9 to find your ftp.

I can hold 5.2w/kg for an hour and rarely ever see NP values above that.

Could also be the way you set up your cycling computer. Do you include zeros in your power?

CasualRider
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:36 am

by CasualRider

Andrew69 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 5:22 am
Bazzman1968 wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 1:16 pm
Retest your ftp, can't be correct.

Baz
It can, but it would really be an outlier

When I first got into cycling, I was still lifting weights (a LOT) which meant I had a very low FTP, but fastantic anaerobic power (like <180w FTP, but >2000w 5 sec sprint power)
The other way to say it your cardivascular system is not great. This may be becaue you have a lot of muscles and too much weight but can't carry intensity at all. Really good cyclists are usually the opposite, big engines but they rarely average even 80% of their ftp. Look at pro peloton for instance. On top of it FTP is somewhat useless metric is you're let's say 2W/kg but has a good sprint.
Tarmac SL8 Maganta Gold
Crux Green Pearl

Previous bikes:
Crux Forest Green
Tarmac SL7 Snake Eye
Venge Bora Team
Venge Purple
Trek Madone SLR 7

Bazzman1968
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat May 06, 2023 3:03 am

by Bazzman1968

Yeah agree, you could be the outlier, often those with lots of lean mass that come from Luther sports, weightlifting, football ect have great anabolic power but lack aerobic capacity.
Cheers Baz

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Bazzman1968 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 9:32 pm
Yeah agree, you could be the outlier, often those with lots of lean mass that come from Luther sports, weightlifting, football ect have great anabolic power but lack aerobic capacity.
Cheers Baz
Sure, but intervals.icu is implying that he’s a literal potato, not just “lacking aerobic capacity.”

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

What if he identifies as a literal potato?

It's not for us to judge.............

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

robertbb wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 12:20 am
What if he identifies as a literal potato?

It's not for us to judge.............

I'm saying the intervals.icu metrics cannot possibly accurate.

Bazzman1968
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat May 06, 2023 3:03 am

by Bazzman1968

We alllove a good Potatoe!

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 12:44 am
robertbb wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 12:20 am
What if he identifies as a literal potato?

It's not for us to judge.............

I'm saying the intervals.icu metrics cannot possibly accurate.
wooooosh

Post Reply