Alternative to Trainer Road

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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3Pio
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Personally prefer riding outdoor versus riding indoor on trainer, but in very cold weather or when im really busy i ride indoor..

Usually it's month to max 3 months per year, and still combined with outdoor riding.. For this purpose i liked Trainer Road last two winters, but with latest price increase (from 12 USD to 15 USD, then to 20 USD), i think it's too expensive (and really dont like their attitude regarding this)... They claim they had to increase price to get more programmers etc, and provide new features, but we dont use / need all features, and not riding indoors all season (i know they have outdoor things included, but still dont need them), so cant afford paying yearly subsciption.. Also they grandfather old users locking their price which also good for loyal users, but now new users will pay twice more then old users...Consider in many countries around the world monthly payment is as low as 300 eur, so this is huge increase in price... Anyway it's their bussiness logic, and dont want to discuss this...

But let's talk about TR Altnernatives....I even think about sharing perosnal created workouts/training plans, and probably for this season will do something like that...I can see many workouts on https://trainerday.com/ for free, so seem that just need to compile few of them in some structured way..

How many of u use some open source workouts and how u use them? Are u just send to Garmin as workout, or import them in GoldenCheetah or similar software?

At moment compile Linux Version of GoldenCheetah 3.5 RC1, whrere i can see Strava Syncing solved, and probaly will import my workouts there...

As soon as i create trainig plan for this 2 monhts, if u like i'll share it... Welcome to anybody willing to share theirs...


What do u think about this idea to share our plans and to help to community, also to stop companies beeing greedy with their non logical price increase...

TheRich
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

The big thing about Trainerroad is that they have a million workouts to "keep it different."

If that isn't important to you, just do plain jane workouts loaded onto your Garmin or whatever on the trainer.

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AeroObsessive
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:42 am

by AeroObsessive

I am an advocate of Zwift. Most workouts/training plans are, in my opinion, generally over complicated.

The plus sides to Zwift (with a smart trainer):-
The varying terrain and courses can be ridden relatively realistically. You have to pay attention as the changing resistance requires gears changes, pacing etc etc.
Various "jerseys" and in-games "records" are, for me, good motivators/trackers of effort.
The racing is close enough to the real thing to elicit tangible benefits, with enough choices that you can choose the best for the intended outcomes. Long, short, hilly, flat, rolling, TTs make for fun times, but be wary of overcooking it.
There are workouts available if that's your thing.

3Pio
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

TheRich wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:24 am
The big thing about Trainerroad is that they have a million workouts to "keep it different."

If that isn't important to you, just do plain jane workouts loaded onto your Garmin or whatever on the trainer.
I like Trainerroad because of instant training plans and workouts around them.. Regarding workouts they have one base of them, and milions around that base (they are almost same some of them, differented in effort or time)

I found this which will probably help me: https://trainerdb-84bdb.firebaseapp.com ... outcreator

Just need to build my training plan around this workouts.. If someone have some plan that willing to share good for winter months, will be great.. I'll definetely try to build my self some plans this days and will share...

I'll import this workouts in Goldencheetah, or just send to Garmin as workout.. All stats, analysis etc, will do in GoldenCheetah since is very powerfull and opensource....
AeroObsessive wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:13 am
I am an advocate of Zwift. Most workouts/training plans are, in my opinion, generally over complicated.

The plus sides to Zwift (with a smart trainer):-
The varying terrain and courses can be ridden relatively realistically. You have to pay attention as the changing resistance requires gears changes, pacing etc etc.
Various "jerseys" and in-games "records" are, for me, good motivators/trackers of effort.
The racing is close enough to the real thing to elicit tangible benefits, with enough choices that you can choose the best for the intended outcomes. Long, short, hilly, flat, rolling, TTs make https://trainerdb-84bdb.firebaseapp.com ... creatorfor fun times, but be wary of overcooking it.
There are workouts available if that's your thing.


I tried few times ZWIFT, and im finding boring :( I like TrainerRoad instant plans and simplificity to do it.. Also not time wasting.. Hop on trainer, ride the workout for a day, hop off... I found Zwift a bit gimmicky, and more social thing than training thng.. I admit i never tried workuts mode from Zwift.. Is it there Training plans as well build around thos workouts?

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

I love Open Source software. I was involved with a number of prominent Open Source projects (Apache, SAMBA) and people (Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman) back in the 2000's. Attended the O'Reilly Open Source convention in Portland in 2005. I wrote my masters thesis on Open Source licenses....

.... and I will say that the latest version of WKO5 blows Golden Cheetah out of the water for usability and for spending less time wrestling with the software and more time analysing your fitness and informing your training plans.

WKO5 will give you insight into your training that can be found nowhere else.

You'll also learn that the existence of hundreds of workouts in Trainer Road is a bit gimmicky. The reality is, there are a few energy systems you can train and WKO5 (once you feed the model with good data) will show you in simple terms the number of intervals you need to do per session, the duration of those intervals, and the intensity of those intervals you need to do to improve a given energy system.

You just hop on your bike, warm up, hit those targets and warm down. The targets would be longer durations at lower intensity and shorter durations at higher intensity. Again, the software will tell you what you should be hitting.... all you need to decide is which area of your fitness you want/need to improve at a given point in a season.

There's a ton of good videos by Tim Cusick, on WKO5.com. Start there.

I paid US$125 for the software and in pure performance terms it's probably the best thing I've purchased in a long while. Far better value than upgrading my head unit for $200... I still use Edge 500 devices.... and it does the job perfectly.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12443
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

3Pio wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:25 am

I tried few times ZWIFT, and im finding boring :( I like TrainerRoad instant plans and simplificity to do it.. Also not time wasting.. Hop on trainer, ride the workout for a day, hop off... I found Zwift a bit gimmicky, and more social thing than training thng.. I admit i never tried workuts mode from Zwift.. Is it there Training plans as well build around thos workouts?

What exactly did you do in Zwift? Free ride? Free riding is boring. Sign-up for race series or get in the groove of doing some of the faster group rides. The nice thing about these events is that once you find ones in time slots that work for you, you can keep doing them week after week. Zwift events compel me to hold onto faster wheels...the other platforms really don't provide that kind of motivation.

3Pio
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:10 am
3Pio wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:25 am

I tried few times ZWIFT, and im finding boring :( I like TrainerRoad instant plans and simplificity to do it.. Also not time wasting.. Hop on trainer, ride the workout for a day, hop off... I found Zwift a bit gimmicky, and more social thing than training thng.. I admit i never tried workuts mode from Zwift.. Is it there Training plans as well build around thos workouts?

What exactly did you do in Zwift? Free ride? Free riding is boring. Sign-up for race series or get in the groove of doing some of the faster group rides. The nice thing about these events is that once you find ones in time slots that work for you, you can keep doing them week after week. Zwift events compel me to hold onto faster wheels...the other platforms really don't provide that kind of motivation.

Tried few times racing as well... But somehow dont know.. Really prefer TR workouts a lot vs Zwift.. Also dont have Smart Trainer (using Kinetic Road Machine), since i found for Intervals i like no need for.. I like simple and direct to core :)

Maybe i need to give a chance to Zwift again....

robertbb wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:48 am
I love Open Source software. I was involved with a number of prominent Open Source projects (Apache, SAMBA) and people (Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman) back in the 2000's. Attended the O'Reilly Open Source convention in Portland in 2005. I wrote my masters thesis on Open Source licenses....

.... and I will say that the latest version of WKO5 blows Golden Cheetah out of the water for usability and for spending less time wrestling with the software and more time analysing your fitness and informing your training plans.

WKO5 will give you insight into your training that can be found nowhere else.

You'll also learn that the existence of hundreds of workouts in Trainer Road is a bit gimmicky. The reality is, there are a few energy systems you can train and WKO5 (once you feed the model with good data) will show you in simple terms the number of intervals you need to do per session, the duration of those intervals, and the intensity of those intervals you need to do to improve a given energy system.

You just hop on your bike, warm up, hit those targets and warm down. The targets would be longer durations at lower intensity and shorter durations at higher intensity. Again, the software will tell you what you should be hitting.... all you need to decide is which area of your fitness you want/need to improve at a given point in a season.

There's a ton of good videos by Tim Cusick, on WKO5.com. Start there.

I paid US$125 for the software and in pure performance terms it's probably the best thing I've purchased in a long while. Far better value than upgrading my head unit for $200... I still use Edge 500 devices.... and it does the job perfectly.
Maybe we know each other from other systems like QSD back in nineties (x.25 network), or Secret Tectonics BBS back in nineties as well :) My first Linux Distro Was Slackware, again back in Nineties.. Still miss days wheb BlueBoxing was possible :) and worth to spend time on discovering freqs of the trunk ;)

Anyway, my main OS is Linux (using Manjaro Arch Linux based).. I installed WKO5 Trial to check in Virtual Machine (using Oracle VM), under Win 10.. It's kinda slow, and dont want to install Windows just for WKO... I have one spare MacMini which is for sale so there will run faster.. But post question to WKO if i buy it now (and still no answer) (btw, there is Black Friday discount for 89 USD now), will be possible to install with same licence again on Windows as soon as i sell my MacMini or will have to buy again.. Regardig Golden Cheetah, as soon u get in Learning Curve and finish, it's very powefull and free and really like Open Source concept..

I agree about TR workouts, there is some of them as base, others are variation of same.. For 15 USD per month ok to be lazy and to pay them, but above this price.. Definetelu as i said will try to do it Open Source way..

p.s. I succeed to compile new Release candidate version of Golden Cheetah.. Small trick regarding vlc libraries needed on my distro.. Now new problem.. Could not add bluetooth or ant+ devices.. Any hints about this?

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kytyree
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:55 am
Location: US

by kytyree

I can get tired of Zwift too, but I leave it running on a tablet and watch tv quite a bit. If you like the workouts of Trainer Road the workout section of Zwift is useful, at least to me.

I don't use any of the workouts that are there when you open Zwift but it is really easy to create your own in the Zwift app or at zwofactory.com. It is also pretty easy to import workouts from Training Peaks (and probably other places) which opens up a whole world of options. Probably not quite as useful is you're not using a smart trainer but I still like having the app keep track of intervals and timing for me so I don't have to try and remember everything and I have plenty of things I do where I'm not using the erg or really primarily tracking my HR.

3Pio
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

kytyree wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:30 pm
I can get tired of Zwift too, but I leave it running on a tablet and watch tv quite a bit. If you like the workouts of Trainer Road the workout section of Zwift is useful, at least to me.

I don't use any of the workouts that are there when you open Zwift but it is really easy to create your own in the Zwift app or at zwofactory.com. It is also pretty easy to import workouts from Training Peaks (and probably other places) which opens up a whole world of options. Probably not quite as useful is you're not using a smart trainer but I still like having the app keep track of intervals and timing for me so I don't have to try and remember everything and I have plenty of things I do where I'm not using the erg or really primarily tracking my HR.
I tried GoldenCheetah on MacMini (3.4 version, 3.5 dont start at all), and BlueTooth / Ant+ not working :(

Could u please check for me in Zwift if some of workouts from https://trainerday.com/ is easy to import in Zwift? Thanks

Probably will give a try this month if i dont suceed with BlueTooth devices (have few more ideas, i'll try them before i give up)

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ms6073
Posts: 4288
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

TP has a good ouytline of what changed and how it compared to WKO3 & 4: WKO 5 New Features
robertbb wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:48 am
I paid US$125 for the software
How did you manage that? List on Peaksware is US $169?
- Michael
"People should stop expecting normal from me... seriously, we all know it's never going to happen"

3Pio
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

ms6073 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:02 pm
TP has a good ouytline of what changed and how it compared to WKO3 & 4: WKO 5 New Features
robertbb wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:48 am
I paid US$125 for the software
How did you manage that? List on Peaksware is US $169?
There is CyberMonday discount of 30%... Use the code WKO5Cyber30

I just checked.. Cant find or realize how to import Workouts and to connect WKO with my sensors/trainer for some training making training plan.. As i can see it's just analyzing software, which Golden Cheetah is totaly ok for me for that...
Last edited by 3Pio on Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kytyree
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:55 am
Location: US

by kytyree

3Pio wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:52 pm

Could u please check for me in Zwift if some of workouts from https://trainerday.com/ is easy to import in Zwift? Thanks
When you click "download" there in trainerday the "zwo" or Zwift workout option is what you would want. So yes, those would be pretty easy to bring into Zwift.
I think it's easiest, especialy if you're importing several workouts to do it on a computer you've installed Zwift on. Then you go to the documents folder and there will be a Zwift folder, within it a workouts folder and you paste/drag the zwo files there. You don't have to use this computer to run Zwift but you do want to open Zwift and connect to the internet, the workouts then go to the cloud. And after they've sync'd you should be able to find them on your phone, tablet, AppleTv, other computers etc that you run Zwift on. It can also be done on a phone/tablet but I think it's a little easier on a computer.

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ms6073
Posts: 4288
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

3Pio wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:09 pm
There is CyberMonday discount of 30%... Use the code WKO5Cyber30
Two thumbs up. :beerchug:
- Michael
"People should stop expecting normal from me... seriously, we all know it's never going to happen"

AJS914
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Does WK05 do anything that approximates vlamax or fatmax? I know that Xert does something called HIE.

by Weenie


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mcfarton
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:15 pm

by mcfarton

Zwift isn’t cheap either. It is 15 dollars a month. It does more than I need or want so I pay them. There are lots of creative ways to motivate yourself on zwift.

Really just do whatever you need to get on the trainer. At the end of the day doing any workout is better than nothing. I just need a distraction from the fact that I am pretending to ride my bike in the basement. I have developed a lot of fitness through zwift and I can see it in the numbers. If you don’t have a smart trainer that should be the first upgrade.


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