Help me choose a frameset (Basso, Argon 18, Vitus)

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atomiccow
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon May 09, 2022 2:33 pm

by atomiccow

Hi all,

I have a SRAM Rival AXS groupset waiting for a frameset. Initially I was almost certain of my frameset choice, but as new 2023 frames come out, I'm becoming less and less sure. Hoping the community can help me make a decision between these:

1) Basso Palta
My original choice was the current Basso Palta (2nd generation of the name). I think the frame is very nice looking and has a very nice color. From what I've seen around here and other sites, Basso frames seem to be fairly high quality. Painting seems to be very consistent and carbon contact points seem to be well surfaced and not irregular. I may be kidding myself, but I feel that if I get a Basso frameset, I'm less likely to run into potential issues with bad brake mounts, headset, or bottom bracket. Also, the Basso comes with seatpost and handlebar, albeit they are proprietary.

The reservations I have about the Basso are that it has a BB86 bottom bracket and the that its head angle is really slack. I know BB86 and SRAM DUB is a troublesome combination, but if this was the only issue, it wouldn't hold me back. The slack head angle is something I can't predict whether I'll like or not. I've never ridden a bike with a 69.5 to 70 degree head angle.

2) Argon 18 Krypton
A Krypton was released for 2023 (https://www.argon18.com/en-ca/bikes/all-road/krypton). It's an all-road bike with tire clearance up to 40mm. What's attractive about this frame to me is its more traditional road-like head angle of 72.3 degrees and its versatility. This frame seems like it would be comfortable as both a road bike and light-gravel bike, depending on what tires I put on it. The frame also has a T47 BB, so good for SRAM DUB.

What I have no idea about is Argon 18's frame quality. They do not obscure the fact that their frames are OEM-built and their marketing seems to surprisingly honest. Based on their pricing, they're clearly not chasing volume. Hopefully some Argon 18 owners on this forum can share what they think of Argon 18's quality.

3) Vitus Venon Evo
This is a super new frameset that Vitus will seemingly release in May of this year. Like the Argon 18, it's an all-road frame. However, it takes tires up to 45mm. The geometry numbers aren't available yet, so I have no idea whether this will even be a choice for me. However, I still want to get some insight into Vitus framesets to know if this frame might be worth waiting for.

I take it that Vitus is like many UK large-volume retailers including Ribble or Orro. Their framesets seem to be exceedlingly inexpensive for what they offer. I haven't heard much about Vitus specifically, but I feel like horror stories of framesets from these kinds of large-volume, low-price retailers are quite high. Is this just my bias?

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Broady
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:02 pm

by Broady

Regarding Vitus, as you say - they don't quite have the prestige of a sexier brand but they do seem to be well thought out and I've never heard any horror stories, they always seem to be reviewed quite well.

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de lars cuevas
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: the Netherlands

by de lars cuevas

The Argon can only take 40mm tyre, 38 with AXS. For a gravelbike, I wouldn't buy anything with clearance under 45 mm.

voicycle
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:38 am

by voicycle

Some of the Wiggle/Spectra riders had the new Venon to try out at some gravel races last year and they said good things. Bike looked great in person too - I was impressed.

I've just upgraded my road bike from a Vitus Vitesse (previous generation - 2018) to an SL7, and of course I like the S-Works more but I can't fault the Vitus. Wiggle customer support were also really good about dealing with issues and not fighting me on them (all my problems were with the build, so wouldn't be relevant if just buying a frameset). They even replaced the whole bike at one point so I've now ridden two of those framesets and both were good quality for what they were. I've also completely rebuilt the bike myself so I've looked up close and am not just talking about rider perception. I know of a fair few stories of Vitus MTB frames failing but have never heard of an issue with a road or gravel bike frame. My gravel bike is a Ribble and I see way more QC issues in that facebook group than the Vitus one - I think the thing in Vitus' favour there is that they're late adopters of trends and don't create lots of proprietary parts like Ribble do, so there's just less chance for stuff to go wrong. No experience of Orro to offer any comparison there though.

I guess if I were to level a complaint at my Vitus all I can really say is it's a bit character-less. However, I think they took a big jump up in quality and innovation between that generation of their road bikes and the current crop - ZX1 in particular looks like a great bike and seems like you're getting probably 90% of the frameset quality of a big brand for 50% of the cost. Only issue I would have if considering something like the ZX1 right now is that Winspace and Elves are both cheaper if you're willing to deal with China for your warranty support.

The Chinese brands don't have anything like the Venon though so that makes Vitus a really interesting proposition in your situation. Perhaps it will be the only real player in the 'budget version of an Ostro Gravel' space for a while...


I would nix the Argon based on tyre clearance as mentioned above (even if you don't initially intend for it to be an all-out gravel bike). I'd guess the Venon will be more speed/aero focused than the Palta but otherwise it seems like it will be about geometry/aesthetics/price between those two. That and perhaps availability - Vitus have really struggled to keep their bikes in stock over the last few years and I think in some cases this has meant that the frameset-only option wasn't offered until a fair bit later than the product launch for complete bikes. That chapter may be behind us now though - I think I recall the new CX frame being available at the same time as complete bikes so maybe they're back on top of things again.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

voicycle wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:34 pm
Some of the Wiggle/Spectra riders had the new Venon to try out at some gravel races last year and they said good things.
Why would they say anything different, even if it wasn't good? Wiggle pay them to ride it and own the brand.

voicycle
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:38 am

by voicycle

ultimobici wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:28 pm
voicycle wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:34 pm
Some of the Wiggle/Spectra riders had the new Venon to try out at some gravel races last year and they said good things.
Why would they say anything different, even if it wasn't good? Wiggle pay them to ride it and own the brand.
Well they certainly wouldn't say anything bad, but we were also in a situation at the time where they didn't really need to speak about it at all if they didn't choose to. I also think you can usually tell when a sponsored rider is positive but unenthusiastic about a piece of equipment they don't love. They'll never put it in writing and they won't tell you what's wrong with it, but you can tell when they're being diplomatic. Enthusiasm for the Venon seemed genuine to me. Obviously that's subjective and if it turned out they all hated the previous bike then the Venon would have a low bar to clear for that enthusiasm, but in the absense of any other info about the bike beyond Warren Rossiter's ride report it seems like potentially useful info.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

voicycle wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:28 pm
voicycle wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:34 pm
Some of the Wiggle/Spectra riders had the new Venon to try out at some gravel races last year and they said good things.
Why would they say anything different, even if it wasn't good? Wiggle pay them to ride it and own the brand.
Well they certainly wouldn't say anything bad, but we were also in a situation at the time where they didn't really need to speak about it at all if they didn't choose to. I also think you can usually tell when a sponsored rider is positive but unenthusiastic about a piece of equipment they don't love. They'll never put it in writing and they won't tell you what's wrong with it, but you can tell when they're being diplomatic. Enthusiasm for the Venon seemed genuine to me. Obviously that's subjective and if it turned out they all hated the previous bike then the Venon would have a low bar to clear for that enthusiasm, but in the absense of any other info about the bike beyond Warren Rossiter's ride report it seems like potentially useful info.
A pro doesn’t give a crap about the bike they rode last season compared to this season. On the rare occasion the do think it’s better or worse they will never let on what they think until they no longer need to be paid to ride. Part of the job description is win races or help win them. The other part is PR for sponsors. Giving anything other than glowing reviews is not done.


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sigma
Posts: 695
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:12 am

by sigma

I just built up the previous generation Krypton pro. Bought the frame a while ago but dealing with the parts shortages meant it stayed dormant till I needed it. The bottom bracket area did not have great tolerances and I had to face out the carbon to get a bbinfinite BB in there. Based on this, I was biased against the frame quality and frankly, I could not have been more incorrect. The bike rides superbly. Normally when I hear about carbon layups handling road chatter etc...I toss my head in disbelief. However, in this case, completely justified. I took the wheels and tires off my S works Roubaix and put them straight onto the Argon for an apples to apples comparison for ride quality. The Argon is definitvely better, handles superbly, and is very light and nimble. I have owned Domanes (rim version), Synapses (disc), and the Roubaix. The Argon is, after one ride, my favorite of that group the the new Domane will be terrific I suspect too. So, in summary, big thumbs up on it assuming the tire clearance works for you.
Lots of bikes: currently riding Enve Melee, Krypton Pro, S Works Crux, S Works Epic Evo, SL7.
In build: SW SL8

nismosr
Posts: 1317
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 5:15 pm

by nismosr

go with the Palta 2, I've had mine for about a year now and log in about 1200 miles on it did a few Gravel events last year , this year I just finished 1 event with the palta. stiff and fast, i have mine set up on a rival axs 1x mullet, GX eagle rear with sram force quarq crankset, zipp 303s with G-One RS 40mm tires.
2020 Colnago C64 Mapei-SR12 EPS-WTO 60
2021 Basso Diamante SV-SR12 Disc EPS-WTO 60
2023 Colnago G3X-SRAM AXS Force-Levante

atomiccow
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon May 09, 2022 2:33 pm

by atomiccow

nismosr wrote:
Wed May 17, 2023 6:06 pm
go with the Palta 2, I've had mine for about a year now and log in about 1200 miles on it did a few Gravel events last year , this year I just finished 1 event with the palta. stiff and fast, i have mine set up on a rival axs 1x mullet, GX eagle rear with sram force quarq crankset, zipp 303s with G-One RS 40mm tires.
I've tentatively gone with the Basso Palta 2. I've put in an order for the size s poseidon frameset with Cicli Corsa. Hopefully the final time and cost are as I expect. I've asked them to change the stem and handlebar width from default.

Even though I was biased to this choice from the beginning, I've so far have had better experiences with both Argon 18 and Vitus (Chain Reaction). Both of those companies answered all the questions I've emailed them promptly, while Basso did not reply me. Basso claim that their bikes are made in Italy, which should make import to my country duty-free. This is a point I thought they would gladly advise me on, but so far I haven't gotten anything from them. I would assume that if they're manufacturing in the EU, then they should be well aware of how to take advantage of all applicable free-trade agreements. This makes me wonder if their frames are still made in Italy.

The Krypton is available in stores around me now and I've seen it. Just from the visible surfaces, it seemed like a very well manufactured frame with very good paint. I admit it was very tempting, but the price for the frameset was a bit much. Especially considering that it doesn't come with a stem or handlebar.

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