Shimano 12s GRX RX820/RX822/RX610, cable pull actuation ratio 11s/12s compatibility

[ultimobici]

I said it's not confirmed by Shimano. I didn't say it's not for sale. The availability of this freehub is quite an old news, dating back to 2022.

It doesn’t exist. It’s a figment of your imagination.


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[DawnBat]

And it seems the rx820 shares the same design with rx812...
Maybe it's just the cage length difference.
rx812 can use the M8000 sgs cage to take on 46t cassette and use 2 by 16t tooth difference crankset simultaneously.
However we don't have 40/42 cassette at 12s, only 44t from sram, 45t from shimano and 46t from alixpress. : /

But it’s not. I cannot be unless the pull ratio of an 812 will work on 12 speed with just a change of lever.

As for capacity, how many times does it have to be stated? Cage length has nothing to do with capacity. It’s a combination of geometry and too jockey wheel location.


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But it actually works, face the fact, the derailleur capacity mythology is a joke, the longer one or parts always work.
And shimano just want to confuse (or I mean 'intimidation') the users by the funny reference Specifications & Compatibility menu, in order to force the users to purchase theirs perfect & complete groupset collections. And they began to stop producing the mechanical components and play the game of electric parts monopoly.
Shimano doesn't understand the art of versatility, the most advantage of shimano is theirs components is much cheaper than SRAM, and probably the mechanic FD.

[ultimobici]

And it seems the rx820 shares the same design with rx812...
Maybe it's just the cage length difference.
rx812 can use the M8000 sgs cage to take on 46t cassette and use 2 by 16t tooth difference crankset simultaneously.
However we don't have 40/42 cassette at 12s, only 44t from sram, 45t from shimano and 46t from alixpress. : /

But it’s not. I cannot be unless the pull ratio of an 812 will work on 12 speed with just a change of lever.

As for capacity, how many times does it have to be stated? Cage length has nothing to do with capacity. It’s a combination of geometry and too jockey wheel location.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But it actually works, face the fact, the derailleur capacity mythology is a joke, the longer one or parts always work.
And shimano just want to confuse (or I mean 'intimidation') the users by the funny reference Specifications & Compatibility menu, in order to force the users to purchase theirs perfect & complete groupset collections. And they began to stop producing the mechanical components and play the game of electric parts monopoly.
Shimano doesn't understand the art of versatility, the most advantage of shimano is theirs components is much cheaper than SRAM, and probably the mechanic FD.

You keep telling yourself that then. Meanwhile the rest of us who actually know what we’re talking about will carry on without the conspiracy juice.

Take a look at a couple of Sram 1x mech. The cage lengths barely change. The orientation of the cage and main body relative to each other is what allows the mech to accommodate a wider cassette. That’s also why, when cable pulls were the same, a Shimano MTB mech would work perfectly allowing a wider ratio cassette to be used but shifted like crap on a narrower ratio cassette. The cage wasn’t the issue, it was the trajectory of the upper pulley. It was too far away from the sprockets the closer you got to the 12t sprocket.

Shimano wasn’t the company that tried to kill off mechanical, that was Sram. You may have more choice of gearing from Sram but it is all electronic.


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[pdlpsher1]

I said it's not confirmed by Shimano. I didn't say it's not for sale. The availability of this freehub is quite an old news, dating back to 2022.

It doesn’t exist. It’s a figment of your imagination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's now official. See the response I got from DT Swiss.

Is it really just a 1mm difference? I thought it was 1.85mm.

Hello,

We came out with a new Microspline Road freehub under the radar, shortly after the launch of the groupset. The cassette will fit on either a standard Microspline or Microspline Road freehub, the difference is the Road version makes up for the 1mm width difference between road and mountain freehub bodies. The part number that freehub is HWYABL00S1961S.

While it has been released, it may take a while before they are available. Our distributors have to get them, so that shops can start ordering them. Until then, current Microspline freehubs will work, it just may shorten your hub by 1mm total if it is a road hub. This means that for the time being, you will need to use the standard microspline MTB free hub body until the new free hub becomes available.

[ultimobici]

I said it's not confirmed by Shimano. I didn't say it's not for sale. The availability of this freehub is quite an old news, dating back to 2022.

It doesn’t exist. It’s a figment of your imagination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's now official. See the response I got from DT Swiss.

Is it really just a 1mm difference? I thought it was 1.85mm.

Hello,

We came out with a new Microspline Road freehub under the radar, shortly after the launch of the groupset. The cassette will fit on either a standard Microspline or Microspline Road freehub, the difference is the Road version makes up for the 1mm width difference between road and mountain freehub bodies. The part number that freehub is HWYABL00S1961S.

While it has been released, it may take a while before they are available. Our distributors have to get them, so that shops can start ordering them. Until then, current Microspline freehubs will work, it just may shorten your hub by 1mm total if it is a road hub. This means that for the time being, you will need to use the standard microspline MTB free hub body until the new free hub becomes available.

Shimano do not have a road microspline. Fact. If DT have redesigned their hub that’s on them.


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[Ritxis]

And it seems the rx820 shares the same design with rx812...
Maybe it's just the cage length difference.
rx812 can use the M8000 sgs cage to take on 46t cassette and use 2 by 16t tooth difference crankset simultaneously.
However we don't have 40/42 cassette at 12s, only 44t from sram, 45t from shimano and 46t from alixpress. : /

But it’s not. I cannot be unless the pull ratio of an 812 will work on 12 speed with just a change of lever.

As for capacity, how many times does it have to be stated? Cage length has nothing to do with capacity. It’s a combination of geometry and too jockey wheel location.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But it actually works, face the fact, the derailleur capacity mythology is a joke, the longer one or parts always work.
And shimano just want to confuse (or I mean 'intimidation') the users by the funny reference Specifications & Compatibility menu, in order to force the users to purchase theirs perfect & complete groupset collections. And they began to stop producing the mechanical components and play the game of electric parts monopoly.
Shimano doesn't understand the art of versatility, the most advantage of shimano is theirs components is much cheaper than SRAM, and probably the mechanic FD.

You keep telling yourself that then. Meanwhile the rest of us who actually know what we’re talking about will carry on without the conspiracy juice.

Take a look at a couple of Sram 1x mech. The cage lengths barely change. The orientation of the cage and main body relative to each other is what allows the mech to accommodate a wider cassette. That’s also why, when cable pulls were the same, a Shimano MTB mech would work perfectly allowing a wider ratio cassette to be used but shifted like crap on a narrower ratio cassette. The cage wasn’t the issue, it was the trajectory of the upper pulley. It was too far away from the sprockets the closer you got to the 12t sprocket.

Shimano wasn’t the company that tried to kill off mechanical, that was Sram. You may have more choice of gearing from Sram but it is all electronic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I said it's not confirmed by Shimano. I didn't say it's not for sale. The availability of this freehub is quite an old news, dating back to 2022.

It doesn’t exist. It’s a figment of your imagination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's now official. See the response I got from DT Swiss.

Is it really just a 1mm difference? I thought it was 1.85mm.

Hello,

We came out with a new Microspline Road freehub under the radar, shortly after the launch of the groupset. The cassette will fit on either a standard Microspline or Microspline Road freehub, the difference is the Road version makes up for the 1mm width difference between road and mountain freehub bodies. The part number that freehub is HWYABL00S1961S.

While it has been released, it may take a while before they are available. Our distributors have to get them, so that shops can start ordering them. Until then, current Microspline freehubs will work, it just may shorten your hub by 1mm total if it is a road hub. This means that for the time being, you will need to use the standard microspline MTB free hub body until the new free hub becomes available.

I'm writing from memory... couldn't it be that the mm of the DT Swiss habak is related to when Shimano released 11 speeds?


The loose rear hubs and those of the Shimano mounted wheels, did they not go from 130 to 131 mm??? Could the issue be there?

Can this image be related to it?

[Packs]

DT Swiss kept their MTB HG freehubs at 10 speed, which accept 11 speed MTB cassettes (and the 11-34). All micro spine freehubs for those were the MTB width.
DT Swiss road HG 11 are 1.85 wider so would be narrower if replacing the freehub with the previous micro spline ones. The MSR are micro spline freehubs that are slightly wider to fit their "road" hubs. I've got one on the way so I'll post pics against the MTB one. The splines will be the same length just the body slightly wider.
That's how I see it anyway?!

[Packs]

So both microsplines are the same length, about 23mm (difficult to measure correctly).
The base of the MSR is 8.12mm against 7.02 for the MS (MTB), so a 1.1mm difference which ties in with what is said above. Full height (with end cap) is 50.2 vs 49.1.



I checked my HG freehubs for road and MTB and they're 1.1mm difference too, 50.4 (full height including end cap) vs 49.3.

[ultimobici]

So the Microspline Road is not a Shimano thing at all. It’s DT Swiss making their wheels compatible with 12 speed.


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[RDY]

Anyone know if DA 11s pulley wheels are interchangeable with GRX 8xx 11s pulley wheels? Have some DA ones spare, and my GRX ones have done about 6000km in very dusty conditions, so could do with replacing.

[pdlpsher1]

I don’t think so. On the 11-speed, DA and Ultegra have different thicknesses due to different bearing design. I would think GRX would be compatible with Ultegra, but not DA. You might be able to mount it but the pulley cage is only designed for a specific pulley. You could use a caliper and measure both pulleys (at the bearing), and you’ll see what I mean.


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[qrotrails]

So.... is the HWYABL00S1961S the correct part to convert the road DT Swiss 350 hub for the SHIMANO XT CS-M8100-12 Speed Cassette 10-51T?

[Ritxis]

GRX Di2 12s patent? https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch ... 0230322328

[harblhat]

Possibly, but the RD images shown are almost exactly the same as the new-ish XT Di2 RD that was released last July, soon after this patent was file: https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... 50-12.html

[Ritxis]

Possibly, but the RD images shown are almost exactly the same as the new-ish XT Di2 RD that was released last July, soon after this patent was file: https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... 50-12.html

true...I didn't remember the XT EP8