Rene Herse Gravel Myths #1 - Too Much Tyre

The spirit of Grav-lo-cross. No but seriously, cyclocross and gravel go here!

Moderator: Moderator Team

User avatar
Packs
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:28 am
Location: Cheltenham

by Packs

https://www.renehersecycles.com/gravel ... much-tire/

I'm fully on board with fatter tyres (48mm+) are better off-road (speed, comfort, grip), but at their lower pressures the reality is when you get out the saddle and put the power down the bike just doesn't shoot forward like it does with narrower tyres. Surely all these rolling tests overlook this.

How much you loose I don't know, and is the loss worth the other benefits? To me yes, but I'm not racing and pottering about averaging 17-21kph. I imagine this is why top end gravel racers are still on "narrower" tyres, especially given races with lots of accelerations/climbing.

Thoughts?...

froze
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:47 am

by froze

Here are my useless thoughts.

While it maybe true that a wider 44c or 45c tire maybe faster, but I don't think their test results are good, especially since pro gravel racers are running between 40 and 42c tires with 30 to 40 psi.

Having said that it could be that Rene Herse is more on board with comfort since most readers reading that site are not pro racers, I doubt any pro racers are reading that site, thus the average rider is more in tune to being comfortable when riding, thus a 44 or 45c tire would only need 28 to 35 psi and the ride is more comfortable plus a bit more surefooted in turns which gives the average rider more confidence.

That's just my take on it all. I use to ride fast on gravel roads using smooth treaded 25c tires, of course that was years ago and we've come a long way since then, but the point is, it can be done on narrower tires, and my experience learning how to ride fast on gravel roads with narrower tires was very helpful for building riding skills. Today, now in my mid 60's I think nothing of riding gravel with narrower tires on my road bike, though I now have a touring bike with 38c tires, but I think nothing of riding gravel with those narrower tires on a bike loaded with 60 pounds of gear.

So at the end of the day, you have to do what you're comfortable with doing, if you don't want the harsh ride found with narrower tires on gravel, or you're uncomfortable with how the narrower tires handle on gravel, then go with the wider 44 or 45c tires if they'll fit your bike of course.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Etienne
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am
Location: France

by Etienne

froze wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:26 am
While it maybe true that a wider 44c or 45c tire maybe faster, but I don't think their test results are good, especially since pro gravel racers are running between 40 and 42c tires with 30 to 40 psi.
Another reason why racers don't use fatter tires is probably that they prefer a more "roadie-like" geometry and 2x, in general ... both limit tire width.

Singular
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

by Singular

It is the usual cherrypicking from Heine - bringing forward only the "facts" that supports the company's stance.

I mean, in a world of new-and-improved the Rene Herse thing is a great tonic and refreshing in its contrast, but the arguments used are sometimes so selective, angled and plain wrong that it is plain silly. For a company having to close the comments of its blog because it was too much "Yeah, but you're wrong", "That's not testing, that's guessing" and "well, it seems that you have overlooked that..."...

CampagYOLO
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

Company in releasing research to back up it's own products shocker.
It's no different to a manufacturer claiming their new frame is more aero/compliant/stiff without releasing the full set of data and just cherry picking the most marketable numbers.

ghostinthemachine
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 9:18 pm

by ghostinthemachine

Just have to look at how ceramic bearings are advertised to see this in spades.

stevesbike
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:33 pm

by stevesbike

a few trials of a 15 second run down test is prototypical Heine, the guy whose theory of planing reported time savings so huge that it would have been the biggest innovation in cycling since the derailleur.

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

stevesbike wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:08 pm
a few trials of a 15 second run down test is prototypical Heine, the guy whose theory of planing reported time savings so huge that it would have been the biggest innovation in cycling since the derailleur.
Planing? This isn't a watersport?

User avatar
Lelandjt
Posts: 833
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:10 am

by Lelandjt

He ignores aero, which matters even at speeds in the teens when considering these distances.
In his world the ultimate gravel bike would be my 19lb full sus MTB with remote lockouts, but that's too techy so he'd come up with an excuse why a steel touring bike is better.

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

RDY wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:15 pm
stevesbike wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:08 pm
a few trials of a 15 second run down test is prototypical Heine, the guy whose theory of planing reported time savings so huge that it would have been the biggest innovation in cycling since the derailleur.
Planing? This isn't a watersport?
I googled it ... so he came up with this nebulous concept but 15 years later hasn't come out with a bike to match the theory?

Why make this crap up when he could have just said comfortable is faster.

gorkypl
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:31 am
Location: Poland

by gorkypl

Jan is a very good salesman. He has some nice ideas, but always remember he is trying to sell his products in the first place.

Fuji Cross 1.5 - Shimano 105 5800 | Cinelli Superstar Disc - Record 12s | Custom steel Karamba - Ekar 13s

User avatar
robbosmans
Moderator
Posts: 2780
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:40 pm
Location: Central Belgium
Contact:

by robbosmans

It all just depends on the terrain you are riding. If you are constantly riding really rough gravel, singletrack, etc 100% get the widest tire you can fit. If you are riding a mix of smooth gravel and road, then a 30-40mm tire is plenty.

stoney
Posts: 474
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:26 am

by stoney

The bigger the tire the bigger the aero penalty. It especially matters for fast gravel races with any asphalt sections.

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

gorkypl wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:12 pm
Jan is a very good salesman. He has some nice ideas, but always remember he is trying to sell his products in the first place.

He sells all sizes of tires. Why would he bend the truth to sell larger tires?

I believe Herse based on my personal gravel experience. That is:

I have a really light S-Works Crux with 38mm tires (40mm actual). My buddies bought Salsa Cutthroats which are drop bar mountain bikes with 60-65mm+ tires.

They were faster than I was in practically all of our gravel riding situations. In rocky or sandy sections they would just ride away from me and my 40mm tires. On smooth sections, we'd all be together but if there were occasional sandy sections I'd have to work extra hard to stay with them.

Sometimes, I'd have to walk sections that they could ride through.

I guess my bike would have a small theoretical advantage on climbs.

warthog101
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

stoney wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:53 pm
The bigger the tire the bigger the aero penalty. It especially matters for fast gravel races with any asphalt sections.
Ditto.
Run a couple of gravel races here and we have a regular gravel bunch.
Nothing bigger than 45 and 40 the most common size.
I don't ride much really rough stuff or single track on mine. That is mtb terrain.

Jan Heine sells generally larger sized tyres.
He is trying to sell more.
I would hardly describe him as a useful source of relevant info for racers.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply