I wrote too much. This is better advice. Cost savings won't be enough to make up for the worry and effort of finding the perfect deal.
New GRX this year?
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Incorrect. GRX 800 shifters (both Di2 and mechanical) have servo wave. ST-R8020 has servo wave as well. R8070, R9170, R7020, and RX600 do not have servo wave.voicycle wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 7:38 pmNot sure if you're saying you expect servowave on CUES or if you mean servowave is a reason to preference GRX, but it's worth noting that Servowave is only on GRX Di2. The mechanical GRX levers don't have it, and since you mention both CUES and RS505 it sounds like you're talking about mechanical shifting.
Last thought is - since 800 mechanical shifters don't have servowave they really aren't much different from ultegra R8020 or 105 R7020. I've owned all three models and it's really just the shape of the brake lever blade and the material it's made from.
Ah right should have confirmed before I posted. Seems OP’s RS505s have it too: https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technolo ... ction.html
So I guess the servo wave fuss at 11sp launch was because they finally put it in a di2 lever?
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So I guess the servo wave fuss at 11sp launch was because they finally put it in a di2 lever?
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The Di2 levers have a revised pivot point that makes braking from the hoods easier, not doable with mechanical due to space restraints - that was the big deal there.
As for drop bar CUES, there have only been vague rumours that it might happen maybe perhaps. I suspect a fishing expedition to see how much market resistance there might be. CUES is fine for OEMs, but will be a nightmare for anyone with older stuff, and especially for bike shops; it should be resisted IMHO.
Also, when Shimano discontinue stuff the announcement is sometimes made only *after* all the product has been shipped and the supply chain is nearly empty; CX70 front derailleurs and UN55 bottom brackets happened like that. You may find a deal, or you may end up paying top dollar on ebay. If you see a deal on something you want then go for it but waiting for a price drop on discontinued lines risks missing out - caveat emptor...
As for drop bar CUES, there have only been vague rumours that it might happen maybe perhaps. I suspect a fishing expedition to see how much market resistance there might be. CUES is fine for OEMs, but will be a nightmare for anyone with older stuff, and especially for bike shops; it should be resisted IMHO.
Also, when Shimano discontinue stuff the announcement is sometimes made only *after* all the product has been shipped and the supply chain is nearly empty; CX70 front derailleurs and UN55 bottom brackets happened like that. You may find a deal, or you may end up paying top dollar on ebay. If you see a deal on something you want then go for it but waiting for a price drop on discontinued lines risks missing out - caveat emptor...
I don't see the potential nightmare regarding CUES and older stuff. Bike shops will have opportunities to sell and mount whole groupsets, and customers will get a fully modulable platform. The initial price might be a bit steep, but it does sound okay at the end of the day.satanas wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 2:49 pmThe Di2 levers have a revised pivot point that makes braking from the hoods easier, not doable with mechanical due to space restraints - that was the big deal there.
As for drop bar CUES, there have only been vague rumours that it might happen maybe perhaps. I suspect a fishing expedition to see how much market resistance there might be. CUES is fine for OEMs, but will be a nightmare for anyone with older stuff, and especially for bike shops; it should be resisted IMHO.
Also, when Shimano discontinue stuff the announcement is sometimes made only *after* all the product has been shipped and the supply chain is nearly empty; CX70 front derailleurs and UN55 bottom brackets happened like that. You may find a deal, or you may end up paying top dollar on ebay. If you see a deal on something you want then go for it but waiting for a price drop on discontinued lines risks missing out - caveat emptor...
The problem witj CUES is that none of it is going to be compatible with anything previous, some hubs possibly excepted. However chains, cassettes, shifters and derailleurs will not be usable for repairs or replacements, so shops will need to stock CUES *as well as* everything else, at least for the next decade or three. Anyone who thinks that won't be a problem hasn't worked in retail...
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Why wouldn’t it be backwards compatible?
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It’s not going to be that big a problem. Chains for 11 speed are from existing stock. CUES is firmly aimed at leisure riders and e-bike customers. The Di2 parts are all designed Ribble used with the main battery rather than the Di2 battery. With 30 years in retail buying I cannot see this being an issue.satanas wrote:The problem witj CUES is that none of it is going to be compatible with anything previous, some hubs possibly excepted. However chains, cassettes, shifters and derailleurs will not be usable for repairs or replacements, so shops will need to stock CUES *as well as* everything else, at least for the next decade or three. Anyone who thinks that won't be a problem hasn't worked in retail...
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For smaller LBSs it's going to be a PITA, as parallel stock of non-compatible parts will need to be carried, or else special ordered as needed. One will need to interrogate customers on the phone more too, i.e., "Do you have normal 9/10/11 speed or CUES 9/10/11 speed?"
My apologies if the chains are normal; my impression was that with Linkglide they were not. A quick search suggests Linkglide chains will work with other 11 speed stuff but maybe not vice versa:
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com?a ... &cid=C-432
My apologies if the chains are normal; my impression was that with Linkglide they were not. A quick search suggests Linkglide chains will work with other 11 speed stuff but maybe not vice versa:
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com?a ... &cid=C-432
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CUES is only applicable to trekking, flat bar & e-bike users. Bearing in mind Shimano still makes compatible cassettes years after ceasing production of a range it will only be a problem for shops that frankly shouldn’t be in business. We coped just fine with parts incompatibility in the past. As for the chains, you only need to see that the chains are all in one box at the end to know they are interchangeable.satanas wrote:For smaller LBSs it's going to be a PITA, as parallel stock of non-compatible parts will need to be carried, or else special ordered as needed. One will need to interrogate customers on the phone more too, i.e., "Do you have normal 9/10/11 speed or CUES 9/10/11 speed?"
My apologies if the chains are normal; my impression was that with Linkglide they were not. A quick search suggests Linkglide chains will work with other 11 speed stuff but maybe not vice versa:
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com?a ... &cid=C-432
The “interrogation” part will be fine. The question is the same, “what parts do you have on the bicycle? If you’re not sure, send us a picture.“
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Thanks for the posts folks, it gave me some directions to think about and compare.
I think in the end I feel (at the moment anyhow) that I don't care enough to decide.... so i'll let things drift along for now i think and buy whatever shifters end up seeming best later - GRX800/600/105.
On CUES my own gut feeling, with no industry insider knowledge at all, is that Shimano is going 12 speed in Di2 only, and anything not 12 speed is going to a common CUES mechanical family to hold off Chinese groupsets. I know that there looks to be info out there saying differently and that there will be 12 speed mech 105 and GRX, but I'm waiting to see that product for real.
I think in the end I feel (at the moment anyhow) that I don't care enough to decide.... so i'll let things drift along for now i think and buy whatever shifters end up seeming best later - GRX800/600/105.
On CUES my own gut feeling, with no industry insider knowledge at all, is that Shimano is going 12 speed in Di2 only, and anything not 12 speed is going to a common CUES mechanical family to hold off Chinese groupsets. I know that there looks to be info out there saying differently and that there will be 12 speed mech 105 and GRX, but I'm waiting to see that product for real.
Sorry if this is not the most appropriate thread - Is it just me or does GRX (current) have a weird, different angle for cable and hose exit, compared to road shifters? Can't get them to sit flush along the bars at all. Very annoying
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Do you have photos of that?
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