Where did you get that information from? Is this 100% sure?
New GRX this year?
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This doesn't make sense since the 12-speed Di2 doesn't clear large tyres (40mm+) as is.
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This is GRX 800. I checked R8000 and it exits to be flush against the bars. I think I'm using the proper electric tape but it keeps deforming, twisting and I cannot get it to sit against the bar at all. Frustrating.... I've redone it 4 times but I still don't feel ready for the bartape
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I’d call BS on this.steveadore wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 7:58 amWhere did you get that information from? Is this 100% sure?
One of the criticisms of GRX was gearing range, so using an RX style mech would be pointless.
Current GRX 2X has an overall range of 478% comapred to Sram AXS Wide's 552%. GRX falls short on 1X as well with 381% compared to Sram's XPLR's 440% and Eagle's 500%.
Shimano's RX mech was a temporary band-aid while GRX was being developed. To recycle it now would be idiotic. Gravel riders are demanding more range, not less. An Ultegra RX mech would give a 481% range and not allow wider tyres to be run unless the stays were longer.
As for just subbing in new chainrings, how would that work? GRX does not work with regular front mechs due to the chainline. To allow 7100/8100/9100 mechs to be used Shimano would have to use existing pattern cranksets which have a 44.5mm chainline, limiting tyre clearance options. The other issue is chainrings would be limited in size to 34t minimum.
Finally, with their direct competition offering electronic across their range Shimano would be mad to launch only mechanical.
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I wouldn't want to use 92xx / 81xx / 71xx style hoods offroad. Even if you have small hands, there's not much to hold on to.
Shimano are getting eaten alive in the electronic gravel segment by SRAM. If GRX82x Di2 doesn't launch at the same time as or before mechanical, it's because Shimano are having problems with it.
IMO the only reason to go 12s GRX Di2 is to get rid of some of the forest of wires and junctions. Otherwise it'll likely be a downgrade - I doubt shifting will be as good or range as flexible, as they have to fit in another cog.
Shimano are getting eaten alive in the electronic gravel segment by SRAM. If GRX82x Di2 doesn't launch at the same time as or before mechanical, it's because Shimano are having problems with it.
IMO the only reason to go 12s GRX Di2 is to get rid of some of the forest of wires and junctions. Otherwise it'll likely be a downgrade - I doubt shifting will be as good or range as flexible, as they have to fit in another cog.
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Everything you have written makes sense. But I guess it could depend on the volume of GRX Di2 sales for 11 speed (I have no idea whether it has been a flop or not)ultimobici wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:17 amI’d call BS on this.steveadore wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 7:58 amWhere did you get that information from? Is this 100% sure?
One of the criticisms of GRX was gearing range, so using an RX style mech would be pointless.
Current GRX 2X has an overall range of 478% comapred to Sram AXS Wide's 552%. GRX falls short on 1X as well with 381% compared to Sram's XPLR's 440% and Eagle's 500%.
Shimano's RX mech was a temporary band-aid while GRX was being developed. To recycle it now would be idiotic. Gravel riders are demanding more range, not less. An Ultegra RX mech would give a 481% range and not allow wider tyres to be run unless the stays were longer.
As for just subbing in new chainrings, how would that work? GRX does not work with regular front mechs due to the chainline. To allow 7100/8100/9100 mechs to be used Shimano would have to use existing pattern cranksets which have a 44.5mm chainline, limiting tyre clearance options. The other issue is chainrings would be limited in size to 34t minimum.
Finally, with their direct competition offering electronic across their range Shimano would be mad to launch only mechanical.
Difficult to say, but it looks like you've got an outward angle on the hoods, which would exaggerate that gap.maurice1 wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:08 amhttps://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... /image.png
https://i.imgur.com/kEOvhQN.png
This is GRX 800. I checked R8000 and it exits to be flush against the bars. I think I'm using the proper electric tape but it keeps deforming, twisting and I cannot get it to sit against the bar at all. Frustrating.... I've redone it 4 times but I still don't feel ready for the bartape
Aside from its flexibility in custom wider range 2x setups like I run, GRX Di2 is a pretty horrible choice for consumers and OEMs vs AXS. The latter is just so much easier, and doesn't have a load of wires, junction boxes and shit software.steveadore wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:27 amEverything you have written makes sense. But I guess it could depend on the volume of GRX Di2 sales for 11 speed (I have no idea whether it has been a flop or not)ultimobici wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:17 amI’d call BS on this.steveadore wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 7:58 amWhere did you get that information from? Is this 100% sure?
One of the criticisms of GRX was gearing range, so using an RX style mech would be pointless.
Current GRX 2X has an overall range of 478% comapred to Sram AXS Wide's 552%. GRX falls short on 1X as well with 381% compared to Sram's XPLR's 440% and Eagle's 500%.
Shimano's RX mech was a temporary band-aid while GRX was being developed. To recycle it now would be idiotic. Gravel riders are demanding more range, not less. An Ultegra RX mech would give a 481% range and not allow wider tyres to be run unless the stays were longer.
As for just subbing in new chainrings, how would that work? GRX does not work with regular front mechs due to the chainline. To allow 7100/8100/9100 mechs to be used Shimano would have to use existing pattern cranksets which have a 44.5mm chainline, limiting tyre clearance options. The other issue is chainrings would be limited in size to 34t minimum.
Finally, with their direct competition offering electronic across their range Shimano would be mad to launch only mechanical.
Shimano knows best, but it could end up being a chicken and egg situation. Even if sales were low, was it because there wasn't a demand or was it because the product wasn't good enough (vs the competition)? Let's face it, as said above, GRX came out already lagging against SRAM and now even worse against EKAR. If it doesn't even offer the range and people don't buy it, why would people then spring for the electronic and much more expensive version?steveadore wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:27 amEverything you have written makes sense. But I guess it could depend on the volume of GRX Di2 sales for 11 speed (I have no idea whether it has been a flop or not)
If they come out with a well designed 2x12 Di2 groupset with appropriate range, with an Ultegra-level price, I'm pretty sure it'll sell.
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Not sure about inferiority compared to Ekar (read the litany of complaints about long-term reliability). And Shimano should definitely focus on the 2X niche, which I think is still a gold mine for the road-oriented gravel crowd. Let's hope it happens.otnemem wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:36 amShimano knows best, but it could end up being a chicken and egg situation. Even if sales were low, was it because there wasn't a demand or was it because the product wasn't good enough (vs the competition)? Let's face it, as said above, GRX came out already lagging against SRAM and now even worse against EKAR. If it doesn't even offer the range and people don't buy it, why would people then spring for the electronic and much more expensive version?steveadore wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:27 amEverything you have written makes sense. But I guess it could depend on the volume of GRX Di2 sales for 11 speed (I have no idea whether it has been a flop or not)
If they come out with a well designed 2x12 Di2 groupset with appropriate range, with an Ultegra-level price, I'm pretty sure it'll sell.
I'm fine with mechanical, btw, though frames such as the new Crux only take electronic FDs
In what sense do you mean? I don't understand.saba wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:04 amThis doesn't make sense since the 12-speed Di2 doesn't clear large tyres (40mm+) as is.
Am am running 12sp Di2 105 with 42mm tyres.
"In my experience, there is only one motivation, and that is DESIRE.
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"
I've tried angled inwards and outwards, won't change the angle, they still stick out a fair bit and the tape isn't strong enough to hold it in place. It just *f##k* up my fit
Shimano is always very conservative with their clearances, but do you think you could fit 45mm or even 50mm with the di2 FD?
My bad for not being clear. I only meant spec-wise. I'm biased towards Shimano's reliability and precision, but I'm trying to have an outside-in look like someone who is just browsing without any previous bias. And in that sense I'd go SRAM or Campy for gravel/adventure. Easily.steveadore wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:40 amNot sure about inferiority compared to Ekar (read the litany of complaints about long-term reliability). And Shimano should definitely focus on the 2X niche, which I think is still a gold mine for the road-oriented gravel crowd. Let's hope it happens.
I'm fine with mechanical, btw, though frames such as the new Crux only take electronic FDs
They absolutely should lean into 2x12. And electronic offerings are a must have. Perception is probably half of the game and SRAM is killing it in that sense.
Then maybe it's the handlebar angles? I've never seen that before tbh.
Last edited by otnemem on Mon May 08, 2023 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Just to clarify, have you tried the R8020 shifters for comparison? Just want to make sure those work fine, and it's not the handlebar itself, as Otnemem has suggested. I'd really appreciate any input, as I was just going to order the RX810 shifters but have had second thoughts and was thinking of getting R8025 (Ultegra for smaller hands, which the GRX was originally based on allegedly)