New GRX this year?

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

FlatlandClimber wrote:New GRX and a new XTR based Mullet is definitely needed. I think Shimano is missing out on a lot of the market.
Agree to a degree. The chances of Shimano allowing road/gravel to work with MTB is almost certainly zero. While cassette spacing may be the same, freehub splines are different and, if they bring out a mechanical 12 speed GRX/105, cable pull will be different. As for Di2, hell will freeze over before they allow cross compatibility unless it’s confined to 1x.

Mores the pity.


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RDY
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by RDY

XTR 11 speed works interoperably with GRX.

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

ultimobici wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 7:24 pm
As for Di2, hell will freeze over before they allow cross compatibility unless it’s confined to 1x.
Well.... duh. MTB mechs these days are mechanically designed to be 1x only. They're not designed to have the capability to work with 10-51 cassettes and double chainrings and giving them the ability to electronically pair with a GRX 2x system wouldn't change that.

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ultimobici
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Karvalo wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 7:24 pm
As for Di2, hell will freeze over before they allow cross compatibility unless it’s confined to 1x.
Well.... duh. MTB mechs these days are mechanically designed to be 1x only. They're not designed to have the capability to work with 10-51 cassettes and double chainrings and giving them the ability to electronically pair with a GRX 2x system wouldn't change that.
You might want to tell Shimano about that as they currently offer XTR in 2x & 1x. If they introduce XTR Di2 it may be possible to mix with GRX & road like my current 11 speed set up.

You can use XTR with road shifters but are restricted to using matching mechs front & rear.


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Karvalo
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by Karvalo

ultimobici wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 1:42 pm
Karvalo wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 7:24 pm
As for Di2, hell will freeze over before they allow cross compatibility unless it’s confined to 1x.
Well.... duh. MTB mechs these days are mechanically designed to be 1x only. They're not designed to have the capability to work with 10-51 cassettes and double chainrings and giving them the ability to electronically pair with a GRX 2x system wouldn't change that.
You might want to tell Shimano about that as they currently offer XTR in 2x & 1x. If they introduce XTR Di2 it may be possible to mix with GRX & road like my current 11 speed set up.

You can use XTR with road shifters but are restricted to using matching mechs front & rear.
So they do let you do it. Then why will hell freeze over before they let you do it?

Obviously they won't let you mix and match front and rear mechs because again, they're not mechanically designed for it. XTR 2x has a 10t jump, GRX has 17. They're not going to let you create a system way outside the design specs if they don't have to.

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ultimobici
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Karvalo wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 1:42 pm
Karvalo wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 7:24 pm
As for Di2, hell will freeze over before they allow cross compatibility unless it’s confined to 1x.
Well.... duh. MTB mechs these days are mechanically designed to be 1x only. They're not designed to have the capability to work with 10-51 cassettes and double chainrings and giving them the ability to electronically pair with a GRX 2x system wouldn't change that.
You might want to tell Shimano about that as they currently offer XTR in 2x & 1x. If they introduce XTR Di2 it may be possible to mix with GRX & road like my current 11 speed set up.

You can use XTR with road shifters but are restricted to using matching mechs front & rear.
So they do let you do it. Then why will hell freeze over before they let you do it?

Obviously they won't let you mix and match front and rear mechs because again, they're not mechanically designed for it. XTR 2x has a 10t jump, GRX has 17. They're not going to let you create a system way outside the design specs if they don't have to.
FFS! Why not reread what I wrote in the context it was written? I was talking about the overall likelihood of GRX & XTR being mixed.


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by Karvalo

ultimobici wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 3:46 pm
Karvalo wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 1:42 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Well.... duh. MTB mechs these days are mechanically designed to be 1x only. They're not designed to have the capability to work with 10-51 cassettes and double chainrings and giving them the ability to electronically pair with a GRX 2x system wouldn't change that.
You might want to tell Shimano about that as they currently offer XTR in 2x & 1x. If they introduce XTR Di2 it may be possible to mix with GRX & road like my current 11 speed set up.

You can use XTR with road shifters but are restricted to using matching mechs front & rear.
So they do let you do it. Then why will hell freeze over before they let you do it?

Obviously they won't let you mix and match front and rear mechs because again, they're not mechanically designed for it. XTR 2x has a 10t jump, GRX has 17. They're not going to let you create a system way outside the design specs if they don't have to.
FFS! Why not reread what I wrote in the context it was written? I was talking about the overall likelihood of GRX & XTR being mixed.
FFS! I have no idea what you're moaning about?

You said there was no chance of Shimano allowing road/gravel and MTB to work together, and then to prove it you pointed out that Shimano does allow road/gravel and MTB to work together.

Maybe you'd be less frustrated if you weren't arguing against yourself?

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by morrisond

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 3:18 pm
New GRX and a new XTR based Mullet is definitely needed. I think Shimano is missing out on a lot of the market.
No mullet needed when it arrives next year and will handle a 10-51 1x12sp cassette.

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Karvalo wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 3:46 pm
Karvalo wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 1:42 pm
You might want to tell Shimano about that as they currently offer XTR in 2x & 1x. If they introduce XTR Di2 it may be possible to mix with GRX & road like my current 11 speed set up.

You can use XTR with road shifters but are restricted to using matching mechs front & rear.
So they do let you do it. Then why will hell freeze over before they let you do it?

Obviously they won't let you mix and match front and rear mechs because again, they're not mechanically designed for it. XTR 2x has a 10t jump, GRX has 17. They're not going to let you create a system way outside the design specs if they don't have to.
FFS! Why not reread what I wrote in the context it was written? I was talking about the overall likelihood of GRX & XTR being mixed.
FFS! I have no idea what you're moaning about?

You said there was no chance of Shimano allowing road/gravel and MTB to work together, and then to prove it you pointed out that Shimano does allow road/gravel and MTB to work together.

Maybe you'd be less frustrated if you weren't arguing against yourself?
No I am not. To use XTR mechs you have to use an MTB chainset. Using a GRX isn’t really a viable option so you’re limited to a top gear of 44x11 or smaller. The XTR mech will not shift the 46/30 or 48x31 11 speed GRX is offered in. Stock GRX gearing is fine unless you want to be able to climb steeper loose trails where 30 or 31 x 34 is not quite low enough. Being able to pair a GRX front mech & chainset with an XTR rear mech on 11-36 would be ideal. Hopefully the next iteration of GRX will have this as standard.

Does that make more sense?


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by pdlpsher1

My on tandem I have Dura Ace Di2 levers, 11-speed XTR FD and RD, with a 50/34 crank and XTR 11-40 cassette. Works beautifully.

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by ultimobici

pdlpsher1 wrote:My on tandem I have Dura Ace Di2 levers, 11-speed XTR FD and RD, with a 50/34 crank and XTR 11-40 cassette. Works beautifully.
What crank are you using please?


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by pdlpsher1

ultimobici wrote:
pdlpsher1 wrote:My on tandem I have Dura Ace Di2 levers, 11-speed XTR FD and RD, with a 50/34 crank and XTR 11-40 cassette. Works beautifully.
What crank are you using please?


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They are custom tandem cranks with carbon arms. They came with the bike and have no branding on them. Probably made by FSA. I’m using Sram 110BCD chainrings.


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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

pdlpsher1 wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
pdlpsher1 wrote:My on tandem I have Dura Ace Di2 levers, 11-speed XTR FD and RD, with a 50/34 crank and XTR 11-40 cassette. Works beautifully.
What crank are you using please?


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They are custom tandem cranks with carbon arms. They came with the bike and have no branding on them. Probably made by FSA. I’m using Sram 110BCD chainrings.


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Presumably they have a wider chainline?


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by Karvalo

ultimobici wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 8:05 pm
No I am not. To use XTR mechs you have to use an MTB chainset. Using a GRX isn’t really a viable option so you’re limited to a top gear of 44x11 or smaller. The XTR mech will not shift the 46/30 or 48x31 11 speed GRX is offered in.
Right, but again this is obvious. Shimano are never going to allow you to electronically do something that the system has not been mechanically designed to do. They won't allow you to add loads of extra chainring gap into a system with a rear mech that hasn't been designed to account for it. I have already covered this if you would (FFS :wink: ) read properly.
Stock GRX gearing is fine unless you want to be able to climb steeper loose trails where 30 or 31 x 34 is not quite low enough. Being able to pair a GRX front mech & chainset with an XTR rear mech on 11-36 would be ideal. Hopefully the next iteration of GRX will have this as standard.
First, even Shimano are not going to put any real future effort into expanding the capabilities of MTB 2x systems. That line of tech is simply dead.

Second, if all you want is a GRX 2x system with an 11-36 you can do that now if you have a cassette. The 10sp GRX does it officially (because Shimano has a 10sp 11-36 cassette to use) and the 11sp 2x mech is equally capable of doing it, there just isn't a cassette of that size in the Shimano series.

Just buy a Sram or other cassette and you'll get exactly what you want out of an otherwise full GRX setup. Messing about with hacking XTR cross compatibility is completely pointless and unnecessary if an 11-36 on the back is the only thing you're trying to achieve.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

I have almost what I want by using XTR mechs & chainset with Dura Ace levers and an S-Road 10-36 cassette. 10 speed isn’t an option as I’m steady on 11 speed from another bike.

Shimano seems to disagree with you for the time being regarding MTB 2x, as do quite a few consumers. Why else would they still offer it on their top of the line range which isn’t that old? Admittedly Sram have gone full on 1x, but, with their track record on quality front shifting, that makes sense!

I’m hoping that they expand the 2x11 range a smidge when going to 12 speed so 46/30 & 11-36 or 40 is within bounds. Judging by Fairwheel’s Open build mixing Dura Ace & Sram parts it’ll be possible even if they don’t extend the rear mech’s range.


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