New GRX this year?

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satanas
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

There's more mainstream confirmation today that mechanical 12 speed 105 is on its way, so the only misding ingredient once that arrives is really a clutched RD.

I too would like to see specific GRX cassettes, rather than these just being borrowed from the road and MTB groups, not that I think it will happen, or that we'll get meaningfully lower gears. :-(

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

11-13-15-17-19-21-24-27-30-34-38-42

That's my hope. On a standard HG freehub body.

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satanas
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

Re cassette teeth, the following already exist:

1. 11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32,36,42 (Sunshine, heavy but cheap, looks well made)
2. 11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32,37,44 (Ingrid, light but very expensive)

I'd much rather have either of these than bigger gaps in the midrange and too-small gaps at the bottom end.

Something like 11,12,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32,37/38 would be useful too IMHO, and perhaps I'm strange but I actually like the 11 speed 11-34 cassette, apart from the gap from 11 to 13T, which the above would fix...

Still, Shimano only seem to acknowledge the existence if racers and big gear pushers so I expect the rest of us will be SOL. There's also no reason why GRX chainrings couldn't be made in significantly smaller sizes, like say 42x26 or 40x25, etc; 44x28 are available from TA now, which is getting there.

SeanOB
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Location: New England, USA

by SeanOB

satanas wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:35 am
Something like 11,12,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32,37/38 would be useful too IMHO, and perhaps I'm strange but I actually like the 11 speed 11-34 cassette, apart from the gap from 11 to 13T, which the above would fix...
Rotor make almost precisely that combination - 11, 12, 13 , 14, 15, 17, 19, 21, 24, 28, 33, 39.

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

satanas wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:35 am
Re cassette teeth, the following already exist:

1. 11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32,36,42 (Sunshine, heavy but cheap, looks well made)
2. 11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32,37,44 (Ingrid, light but very expensive)

I'd much rather have either of these than bigger gaps in the midrange and too-small gaps at the bottom end.

Something like 11,12,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32,37/38 would be useful too IMHO, and perhaps I'm strange but I actually like the 11 speed 11-34 cassette, apart from the gap from 11 to 13T, which the above would fix...
Something very similar is promised, if you can wait until September this year (as per the other thread on this forum).

Shimano HG-710

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-36

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... 10-12.html

(Agree, the 11-34 is actually a really good cassette. Even if they kept it and just added a 38t at the end in 12 speed, I'd be happy).

steveadore
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:01 am

by steveadore

Though not officially supported by Shimano, I have replaced the 11T cog on the 11-34 cassette with a 12T (Ultegra) one

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

satanas wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:35 am
Re cassette teeth, the following already exist:

1. 11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32,36,42 (Sunshine, heavy but cheap, looks well made)
2. 11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32,37,44 (Ingrid, light but very expensive)

I'd much rather have either of these than bigger gaps in the midrange and too-small gaps at the bottom end.

Something like 11,12,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32,37/38 would be useful too IMHO, and perhaps I'm strange but I actually like the 11 speed 11-34 cassette, apart from the gap from 11 to 13T, which the above would fix...

Still, Shimano only seem to acknowledge the existence if racers and big gear pushers so I expect the rest of us will be SOL. There's also no reason why GRX chainrings couldn't be made in significantly smaller sizes, like say 42x26 or 40x25, etc; 44x28 are available from TA now, which is getting there.
That Ingrid 11-44 in 2x would be the dream ...

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

steveadore wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:28 am
Though not officially supported by Shimano, I have replaced the 11T cog on the 11-34 cassette with a 12T (Ultegra) one
Is that 12t cog identifier: "12B" ?

steveadore
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:01 am

by steveadore

robertbb wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:59 pm
steveadore wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:28 am
Though not officially supported by Shimano, I have replaced the 11T cog on the 11-34 cassette with a 12T (Ultegra) one
Is that 12t cog identifier: "12B" ?
Yes, I think so. I don't remember exactly (bought it 3 years ago and cannot find the order details among my emails). But it is the 12T sprocket for the R8000 Ultegra cassette (12-25), which is not officially supposed to be fully compatible with the HG800 11-34 cassette, but I thought it would be worth trying (as I wouldn't really use the 11T sprocket on my gravel bike), and it works just fine (never had any misshifts, though I don't use the 12T that often either).
I really liked the 12-30 gradation I used to have on my older 10-speed Ultegra cassettes. GRX should definitely have a wide-range cassette that starts with a 12T instead of 11T

satanas
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

^ Or even 13T. Something like 13-42/44 would be useful for bikepacking with the stock rings.

As for the Ingrid 11-44 and 2x, this should be possible in theory using Campag 12 speed Ergopower levers + a Shimano XT RD-M8120 + a Jtek Shiftmate #2:

http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmat ... s-choices/

There are Shimano 12 MTB-compatible Gevenalle shifters and Microshift 12 speed bar end shifters too, or maybe a suitable GRX mech may appear later this year. There are very high capacity RDs available from S-Ride in 11 speed, but no suitable 12 speed shift levers yet AFAIK. (FWIW, numerous reports suggest the current GRX 2x RDs seem to get on fine with up to 11-42 cassettes, despite only being rated for 34T.)

warthog101
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

I dislike the 13 to 11 jump at the big end of those cassettes however.
At the tall gears is where I prefer a smaller jump.
11,12,13 would be better and make a bigger jump somewhere toward the easier gears.

satanas
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

warthog101 wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:30 am
I dislike the 13 to 11 jump at the big end of those cassettes however.
At the tall gears is where I prefer a smaller jump.
11,12,13 would be better and make a bigger jump somewhere toward the easier gears.
No, no, no! We just need another gear - Ekar has proven that 13 speeds is doable...

In all seriousness, it appears from the documentation that the Ingrid cassette is mostly a monoblock, so the 11 + 13T are fixed and not removable. 12x13 would be more useful more of the time - for me anyway - but the 11T would be handy on long Alpine descents. I for one really dislike big gaps in the middle of the cassette - like 21x24 in the middle of most of the current 12 speed cassettes - as I often find myself there in headwinds bikepacking, and struggle to find a non-annoying gear. :-(

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

satanas wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:16 am
^ Or even 13T. Something like 13-42/44 would be useful for bikepacking with the stock rings.

As for the Ingrid 11-44 and 2x, this should be possible in theory using Campag 12 speed Ergopower levers + a Shimano XT RD-M8120 + a Jtek Shiftmate #2:

http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmat ... s-choices/

There are Shimano 12 MTB-compatible Gevenalle shifters and Microshift 12 speed bar end shifters too, or maybe a suitable GRX mech may appear later this year. There are very high capacity RDs available from S-Ride in 11 speed, but no suitable 12 speed shift levers yet AFAIK. (FWIW, numerous reports suggest the current GRX 2x RDs seem to get on fine with up to 11-42 cassettes, despite only being rated for 34T.)
I've not heard of people using the 2x 11-34 GRX 8xx RD with 11-42 in 2x. I think they're using the 1x 11-42 rated GRX 8xx RD with 11-40 / 11-42 in 2x. I'm among them.

It's looking likely though that Shimano won't provide something in the 11-40 / 11-42 / 11-44 cassette range for GRX 12s though, and will either use the road 11-36 for 2x, or MTB ones in the 10-48 / 10-50 / 10-52 range for 1x. So the question becomes whether the new GRX 12s RD (probably the long cage one) will work with cassettes that sit in the tooth range between road and MTB in 2x.

Most people I spoke to (including a Shimano distributor) were pessimistic. I asked Ingrid if they had any info and they think it should work ... hope they're right.

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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

Shimano has 10-45 cassettes for 12s already, so those will probably be used for grx

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

RDY wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:54 am


It's looking likely though that Shimano won't provide something in the 11-40 / 11-42 / 11-44 cassette range for GRX 12s though, and will either use the road 11-36 for 2x, or MTB ones in the 10-48 / 10-50 / 10-52 range for 1x. So the question becomes whether the new GRX 12s RD (probably the long cage one) will work with cassettes that sit in the tooth range between road and MTB in 2x.

Most people I spoke to (including a Shimano distributor) were pessimistic. I asked Ingrid if they had any info and they think it should work ... hope they're right.
Lazy and cheap on Shimano's part, if this bares out.

Talk about screwing the pooch - just one HG cassette to split the difference between road and MTB is all they need. Just one (11-42). And it is most definitely needed on a 1x gravel/groad drop-bar bike.

Would have me switching over to SRAM in an instant.

by Weenie


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