Adapters for any 10s or 11s Sram Road Shifters to 12s or 13s

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MARC0
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 10:07 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

by MARC0

ATTENTION !!!: First of all let me remind you these are non-profit prototypes made only for testing purpose on your home bikes' stands without any other goal. We are not responsible for any problem, loss or damage of any kind that may be caused. Use it on your own risk.

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As you know, I've been working for years to create these ratchets always accompanied with good spanish friends to whom I want to thank for their help from these first lines. Thank you, to Luis, Sergio, the three Javis, Fran, Fer and the many others who already have the ratchets in your SRAM Road Shifters.

My first intention was to create ratchets that could be 3D printed in high strength thermoplastic but it was not feasible, hence finally it was viable on steel 316L 3D printing. The only part that can be printed in thermoplastic (e.g: nylon P12 or P11) is the cable spool adapter for Sram old 10 speed shifters (those that do not carry the original red cable spool) which converts mentioned shifters to 11s or 12s or 13s.

This process began with the conversion to 12s of any mechanical Sram road shifter (10s or 11s), and the experience accrued let us get a second design for converting them to 13s and, in addition, a necessary piece to pass the old models of 10s shifters both to both 11s as at 12s or 13s.

The creation process has been slow and expensive, I would printed more than 50 prototypes before finding a proper inexpensive producer in China. But finally, we already have at least one producer in where the ratchets can purchase for 25€ (To know more please check the last posts at the spanish forum: https://www.foromtb.com/threads/adaptad ... 3v.1538387).

This last reason and the fact of having finished the designs encourage me to free the pieces as I had committed to you to somehow return my thanks for your monitoring and help. So here they go:

Ratchet12s
Ratchet13s
CableSpool10s


Tips and directions:

The testers, we've tested the parts and the result are good, the 12s ratchet works with mtb 12s cassettes (not over 12s AXS cassetes that possibly work with the one 13s ratchet blocked to 12s) with average ranges (11-46 or 10-45 ) and in 13s with Ekar 9-36, 9-42 and 10-44.

When we try high-range cassettes like 12s e*thirteen 9-46 we have to help the rear mech replacing the original jockeys with a 10s narrow-wide (upper) and 14t or 13t (lower).

In the case of 13s Ekar, it is not necessary to replace the original upper jockey but the lower one should have 14t since it helps the chain to have more tension in small cogs.

The most important thing for the adjustment is to know that we are using a transmission designed for 10 or 11s in 12s and taken to the end of its operation in 13s. This involves a challengefor the two inner shifter paws that handle the chain movements by exceeding the chain line of the incoming cog and then retreat and put it in place. That movement is designed for 11s and in 12s or 13s, so the chain can touch the upper cogs and so malfuntioned. Why do I explain the above? Because we need to know what we are doing.

We have tried all kinds of chains for 12s and mostly all work without problems.

For the 13s Ekar cassettes, the original Ekar chain works but it forces us to have Ekar chainrings installed. To use conventional chainrings over our 13s ratchet, a 12s Chorus chain or a 12s AXS flattop chain do the job.

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Last edited by MARC0 on Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:45 am, edited 8 times in total.

MARC0
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 10:07 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

by MARC0

VIDEOS:

12s ratchet in the shifter:


With 12s microspline cassette 10-45 working:
Last edited by MARC0 on Thu May 20, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

by Weenie


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MARC0
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 10:07 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

by MARC0

TIPS AND DIRECTIONS:

The most important thing is to know that we are using a groupset designed for 11s in 12s, and this is real challenge because when you move the upper internal shifter paws to upper sprockets (not our ratchet) it pushes the chain beyond the chain line of the incoming sprocket and then back it up and put it in place. This movement is designed for 11s and in 12s the chain can touch the upper sprocket above the one we want before going back and so raising two sprocket. Why do I point the above lines out? Because you need expertise adjusting deraillers and it is not enough just having watched internet videos.

The second important thing to keep in mind is that the "apex1 or rival1 or force1 derailieurs, although they are almost a replica of the 11s mtb ones, the main body part is different and they do not comply with the mtb derailleurs rule, which says to bring the upper jockey closer as much as possible to the large sprocket in favor to reach better the lower sprocket. In the case of 11s road sram deiralleur, if you bring the jockey too close, the derailleur goes too far and has the opposite effect.
Last edited by MARC0 on Thu May 20, 2021 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MARC0
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 10:07 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

by MARC0

Reserved

Steve Curtis
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:20 pm
Location: Hampshire UK, Dublin Ireland and Geneva Switzerland.

by Steve Curtis

I'd be really keen on a few if they worked with sram road cassettes, but I guess that's not possible.

MARC0
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 10:07 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

by MARC0

I've never tried with any 12s road cassettes, sorry. I guess it should be funtional because the ratchet teeth settles the proper chainline per sprocket and the distance among them are the same on 12s road and mtb cassettes
Last edited by MARC0 on Thu May 20, 2021 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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MayhemSWE
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

by MayhemSWE

Steve Curtis wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:49 pm
I'd be really keen on a few if they worked with sram road cassettes, but I guess that's not possible.
Ratio Technology just released their 12-speed ratchet for SRAM road cassettes. It should have slightly different spacing to compensate for the different cog pitch compared to a mountain cassette. Possibly the same ratchet could be used with acceptable results over part of the cassette, but probably not across the full range. I am getting a kit in very soon for testing.

MARC0
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 10:07 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

by MARC0

MayhemSWE wrote:
Steve Curtis wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:49 pm
I'd be really keen on a few if they worked with sram road cassettes, but I guess that's not possible.
Ratio Technology just released their 12-speed ratchet for SRAM road cassettes. It should have slightly different spacing to compensate for the different cog pitch compared to a mountain cassette. Possibly the same ratchet could be used with acceptable results over part of the cassette, but probably not across the full range. I am getting a kit in very soon for testing.
Not really, they are both the same thing, it seems the new model has been mechanized instead of being steel printed, the reason why is because cnc is even cheaper to produce but worst with the small details for gearing properly. They built narrower base for the teeth and made wider the top to be cnc machined, but it not a good idea to avoid tough shifting feeling.

The teeth design is correlated with the derailleur movements, each tooth stop the cable in each sprocket chainline but the inner shifter paws move it back and forth to reach the aforementioned sprocket chainline and there the teeth slope design is important to make the derailleur movement softer.
Last edited by MARC0 on Thu May 20, 2021 9:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Steve Curtis
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:20 pm
Location: Hampshire UK, Dublin Ireland and Geneva Switzerland.

by Steve Curtis

MayhemSWE wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 2:40 pm
Steve Curtis wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:49 pm
I'd be really keen on a few if they worked with sram road cassettes, but I guess that's not possible.
Ratio Technology just released their 12-speed ratchet for SRAM road cassettes. It should have slightly different spacing to compensate for the different cog pitch compared to a mountain cassette. Possibly the same ratchet could be used with acceptable results over part of the cassette, but probably not across the full range. I am getting a kit in very soon for testing.
Yer, I was just about to order a few when I saw this.

As a side note, I used to be in to competition shooting and tuning my own guns. As part of this is did trigger work and polishing trigger sears was part of that process. I intended to polish the sears on the metal shift mechanism to see what, if anything it did.

gwerziou
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:25 pm
Location: Ballard, WA

by gwerziou

Wow, really cool. Could you make a 13 speed one to work on Ekar cassettes?
• A hi-zoot bike, pretty sweet
• An old bike, more fun than the new one actually
• Unicycle, no brand name visible

MARC0
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 10:07 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

by MARC0

gwerziou wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 4:52 pm
Wow, really cool. Could you make a 13 speed one to work on Ekar cassettes?
Despite the ratchet has room enough for one more tooth, I think the shifter two internal paws cannot cover the 13s because they are responsible of the chain side movement and I think there isn't enough space for 13s, hence both paws should be redesign too.

MARC0
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 10:07 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

by MARC0

Batches ready, just awaiting to be delivered Image Image

Steve Curtis
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:20 pm
Location: Hampshire UK, Dublin Ireland and Geneva Switzerland.

by Steve Curtis

Until some user reports come back confirming what cassettes they work with I've gone with ratio technology.
I hate crappy shifting so this is import to me.

If I know these work with sram cassettes im in for a few.

MARC0
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 10:07 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

by MARC0

Steve Curtis wrote:Until some user reports come back confirming what cassettes they work with I've gone with ratio technology.
I hate crappy shifting so this is import to me.

If I know these work with sram cassettes im in for a few.
Mine has been proofed for long and it's softer by far, each click makes you happy ;) I entirely redesigned the teeth to work smooth and soft while we're climbing.

Finally I've never tried the kickstarter platform because only few people were involved and hence I ordered the first 50 ratchets straight away.

Steve Curtis
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:20 pm
Location: Hampshire UK, Dublin Ireland and Geneva Switzerland.

by Steve Curtis

MARC0 wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:05 pm
Steve Curtis wrote:Until some user reports come back confirming what cassettes they work with I've gone with ratio technology.
I hate crappy shifting so this is import to me.

If I know these work with sram cassettes im in for a few.
Mine has been proofed for long and it's softer by far, each click makes you happy ;) I entirely redesigned the teeth to work smooth and soft while we're climbing.

Finally I've never tried the kickstarter platform because only few people were involved and hence I ordered the first 50 ratchets straight away.
I commend what you've done. It's a great job getting these things produced.
I'm waiting for the SRAM force cassettes to become available and I'll be shifting most bikes over to 12 speed using ratio tech or your solution. I'm just stuck right now 🥺

Good job 👍🏻

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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