1x Campagnolo Ekar drivetrain

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bmCube
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by bmCube

de lars cuevas wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:15 pm
Vespasianus wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:41 pm
de lars cuevas wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:47 am
- The bike developped a terrible creak in the rear within a few weeks, which I could not get rid of. Might be in the cassette. Canyon fixed it, still don't know what they did exactly. :-)
That occurs between the two cassette pieces, all you need to do is put a very thin layer of grease between the two and crank the bolt to spec, it goes away. Many shops don’t actually tighten the cassette locking according to Campag specifications.
Hiya,

thanks, heard of and tried that fix allready myself, but it did not work for me. Still don't know what Canyon did, but they must have done something right. :D
I think they removed the sleeve in the cassette. Did it with all my ekar cassettes. Body is a little more prone to dirt, but that's not an issue for me. No more creaking ;)

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eurperg
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by eurperg

I put superglue to both ends of the cassette sleeve, that made it quiet. The cassette spider / freehub body interface needs to be greased well also. The seam between the two cassette parts starts creaking occasionally though, especially after washing the bike. The cassette could be improved.

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MauriceBrocco
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by MauriceBrocco

Well, I had to adjust shifting in the beginning occasionally. But after 100k or so it was bang on without issues. The only time since that I needed to adjust was on a muddy ride that clogged the cassette and the RD. My Rival 11 setup before would probably have shown similar symptoms under those conditions. So yes, it's pretty good.
I'm running the 9-36 cassette because I'm riding on flat terrain predominantly. I don't have any creaking issues. I'm very curious to see how the drivetrain wears. I'm waxing the chain and so far it needed very little servicing despite riding in pretty grim conditions.

I got the 38 chainring, which still equates to quite a big gear with the circumference of 42c tires. Downhill with a cadence of 95 I'm doing around 60 km/h.
The brakes are phenomenal.

BenCousins
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by BenCousins

I want to put super record mechanical in my new Supersix evo 4. The manual for the frame states I need to use a BB with a sleeve to prevent interface with cables.

Standard Campag UT cups don't come with a sleeve, there are ceramic options with a sleeve from CS and c-bear that are quite expensive.

Is it possible to use the Ekar Pro-Tech BB with a super record crank? This comes with a sleeve.

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eurperg
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by eurperg

You can use a Ekar BB with SR cranks only if you change the bearings on the SR crank to Ekar bearings. The sleeve from Ekar BB could be used with the starndard Campagnolo BB though. That would be a much easier solution.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

BenCousins wrote:I want to put super record mechanical in my new Supersix evo 4. The manual for the frame states I need to use a BB with a sleeve to prevent interface with cables.

Standard Campag UT cups don't come with a sleeve, there are ceramic options with a sleeve from CS and c-bear that are quite expensive.

Is it possible to use the Ekar Pro-Tech BB with a super record crank? This comes with a sleeve.
Don’t use an Ekar bb. It may “work” but it’ll invalidate the warranty on your bearings, cups and £800 crankset. Not worth it.

Use this. https://www.condorcycles.com/products/c ... 8391432202


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BenCousins
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by BenCousins

Thanks! It amazes me how I need to ask experts to help me with this stuff, rather than it be in the Campagnolo support documents.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

BenCousins wrote:Thanks! It amazes me how I need to ask experts to help me with this stuff, rather than it be in the Campagnolo support documents.
It’s at the top of page 3 of the installation docs.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... 21_ENG.pdf


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morrisond
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by morrisond

I'm using Ekar on an All-Road Rando bike that rarely sees heavy dirt.

Will the cranks work with normal UT ceramic bearings and a normal UT BB?

I'm guessing yes?

Volsung
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by Volsung

They spun but my attempt at normal UT was creaky. Protech BBs have the same dimensions but there's an extra little seal that changes the interfaces a bit.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:16 am
I'm using Ekar on an All-Road Rando bike that rarely sees heavy dirt.

Will the cranks work with normal UT ceramic bearings and a normal UT BB?

I'm guessing yes?
No. They are totally incompatible. All you will achieve is a voided warranty on cups, bearings & cranks. If you must have ceramic bearings, get ones that are designed for the application. Ceramicspeed offer an Ekar specific set at €379, if you really must have ceramaic.......

https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling ... o-pro-tech

morrisond
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by morrisond

ultimobici wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:43 pm
morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:16 am
I'm using Ekar on an All-Road Rando bike that rarely sees heavy dirt.

Will the cranks work with normal UT ceramic bearings and a normal UT BB?

I'm guessing yes?
No. They are totally incompatible. All you will achieve is a voided warranty on cups, bearings & cranks. If you must have ceramic bearings, get ones that are designed for the application. Ceramicspeed offer an Ekar specific set at €379, if you really must have ceramaic.......

https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling ... o-pro-tech
I must - I have put ceramics into enough products that just how everyone spins better on a stand (once broken in) is enough for me to appreciate them - I don't care if they are faster.

I got the BB for no cost from Kogel on a black friday deal when I bought pulleys (or maybe it was the other way around), so no biggy if it doesn't work. I have the UT bearing removal tool.

I really don't care about the warranty, EKAR cranks are cheap enough, and if for some bizarre reason this caused it to fail - just pop the old bearings back on - however I doubt I would even do that - too much hassle.

Are the Axles different diameters? My understanding was that EKAR cups were slightly different in that they were deeper to allow space for the extra seals on the bearings, hence why you need Pro-tech cups as well.

Why wouldn't normal UT bearings work on an EKAR axle with normal UT cranks and UT cups? Looking at the Tech docs It looks like the interface between the axle and crank arms is slighlty different but then again - I found a BikeRumour reference stating it is a normal UT axle?

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:43 pm
I really don't care about the warranty, EKAR cranks are cheap enough, and if for some bizarre reason this caused it to fail - just pop the old bearings back on - however I doubt I would even do that - too much hassle.

Are the Axles different diameters? My understanding was that EKAR cups were slightly different in that they were deeper to allow space for the extra seals on the bearings, hence why you need Pro-tech cups as well.

Why wouldn't normal UT bearings work on an EKAR axle with normal UT cranks and UT cups? Looking at the Tech docs It looks like the interface between the axle and crank arms is slighlty different but then again - I found a BikeRumour reference stating it is a normal UT axle?
Ekar uses the same Hirth Joint axle design. However the dimensions of the axle halves may be slightly different, as could the cup depth & bearing thickness. If the BB is changed to UT, you may find that the slight change to the location of the bearings results in a misaligned crankset. Due to the way the DS bearing is located that will be in the "right" position. The NDS will more than liokely be slightly too far out or too far in. Either result will be an issue.

Campagnolo have a long record of making compatible parts interchangeability known. If the UT & Protech systems were interchangeable they would say so. The fact that they expressly state they are not, makes me think this will be more hassle than its worth. If a €250+ crankset is cheap enough for you to sacrifice it, why not stump up for the right part in the knowledge it will work flawlessly? Maybe you know better than Campagnolo?

morrisond
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by morrisond

ultimobici wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:05 pm
morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:43 pm
I really don't care about the warranty, EKAR cranks are cheap enough, and if for some bizarre reason this caused it to fail - just pop the old bearings back on - however I doubt I would even do that - too much hassle.

Are the Axles different diameters? My understanding was that EKAR cups were slightly different in that they were deeper to allow space for the extra seals on the bearings, hence why you need Pro-tech cups as well.

Why wouldn't normal UT bearings work on an EKAR axle with normal UT cranks and UT cups? Looking at the Tech docs It looks like the interface between the axle and crank arms is slighlty different but then again - I found a BikeRumour reference stating it is a normal UT axle?
Ekar uses the same Hirth Joint axle design. However the dimensions of the axle halves may be slightly different, as could the cup depth & bearing thickness. If the BB is changed to UT, you may find that the slight change to the location of the bearings results in a misaligned crankset. Due to the way the DS bearing is located that will be in the "right" position. The NDS will more than liokely be slightly too far out or too far in. Either result will be an issue.

Campagnolo have a long record of making compatible parts interchangeability known. If the UT & Protech systems were interchangeable they would say so. The fact that they expressly state they are not, makes me think this will be more hassle than its worth. If a €250+ crankset is cheap enough for you to sacrifice it, why not stump up for the right part in the knowledge it will work flawlessly? Maybe you know better than Campagnolo?
So basically you don't know the answer to my question. And stating it won't work was you just being difficult with no real knowledge whatsoever.

Yes according to what I recall of the information presented at launch - Cup depths/shapes are different to account for diferent seals - I doubt the bearings are narrower.

And yes I doubt the systems are interchangeable either - I doubt you can use Protech Bearings seals with UT cups and I doubt you can use UT bearings with Protech cups. However UT bearings with UT cups could possibly work. You haven't given me any reason they won't except for maybe.

As I have the parts and tools - I might as well try. It will be pretty obvious if the bearings won't go on or are too loose. If that fails I'll just put the old bearings back on.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:12 pm
So basically you don't know the answer to my question. And stating it won't work was you just being difficult with no real knowledge whatsoever.

Yes according to what I recall of the information presented at launch - Cup depths/shapes are different to account for diferent seals - I doubt the bearings are narrower.

And yes I doubt the systems are interchangeable either - I doubt you can use Protech Bearings seals with UT cups and I doubt you can use UT bearings with Protech cups. However UT bearings with UT cups could possibly work. You haven't given me any reason they won't except for maybe.

As I have the parts and tools - I might as well try. It will be pretty obvious if the bearings won't go on or are too loose. If that fails I'll just put the old bearings back on.
I wasn't suggesting mixing bearings & cups.

Since the drive side bearing & seal are fixed to the axle with a clip, any discrepency in overall thickness will either result in a loose bearing or difficulty fititng the circlip. That's your first issue. The second issue that is likely to rear it's head is the distance between the faces of the cups being ever so slightly off. If they are too close together, you may be able to shim the cups to correct it. If it's the other way, the only way to sort it will be to face the BB shell to below normal spec. That is a little too extreme.

Best option is to get the bearings you have and measure them. Then see if you can source ceramics to fit.

I'm not saying this from pure guess work. I worked for a CSS for almost 13 years. I have heard why it won't work from the horses mouth. But it is your money you want to burn.

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