1x Campagnolo Ekar drivetrain

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DrimeOser
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by DrimeOser

Ekar is a diva pretty much! Did you have the hanger checeked for alignment? That would be the to-go approach when shifting is inconsistent.

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

MauriceBrocco wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:09 am
Does anyone know whether the Ekar bearings have the same 6mm width as the ultra torque bearings? Because that's a proprietary design. I'd love to find a way to fit 7mm bearings. That would open the door to using nice NTN or SKF bearings, which would probably run much smoother and last forever. I wonder if you could fit 7mm bearings into the Protech cups because of the additional space that's in there for the enormous rubber seal.
Please note that the UT bearing, whilst everyone loves to think it's some kind of oddity, isn't - It's a pretty bog standard bearing size, 6805N, very widely available - if you rip a Shimano HT2 bearing cup apart, take the plastic reducer out of the middle - you'll find it's the same size bearing as Campag use.

ProTech simply has an additional, exterior seal ring placed on it and the cup is differently shaped inside to accommodate that seal - the same overall depth, so no, a 7mm wide bearing doesn't fit.

Their bearing supplier is already one of the very best (FAG) so probably, no, it won't run any smoother or last any longer with NTN, Koyo, SKF or any other bearing maker, necessarily, because the smoothness with which a bearing runs is defined by it's ABEC or ISO classification - all bearing makers can make a low spec bearing, just as all of them can make a high spec one. Since Campagnolo use a standard ISO / ABEC 5 standard of combined bearing sphericality and race roundless / grind quality or above in ProTech, as they have in UltraTorque, you'd need to go to an ABEC 9 to better that - not necessary or even detectable by ordinary mortals in this type of application.

What you do have to be marginally careful about is the exact internal / external sizing specs used because they are not fully governed by the ISO / ABEC quality coding system - they are governed by a sizing metric which isn't the same thing at all ... and a particular manufacturer, in sourcing bearings, may say to their supplier, that they want an ISO xxxx size bearing but rather than the sizing tolerance being +/- whatever the ISO standard is for that bearing, they may demand a tighter or looser standard ... hence we see issues sometimes fitting third-party generic bearings, even very high quality (in terms of their ISO or ABEC rating) into manufacturer assemblies - occasionally the bearing will tighten up, or be a slip fit where it should be an interference fit ...
Last edited by graeme_f_k on Tue May 09, 2023 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
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Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

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graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

ultimobici wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:45 pm
morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:23 pm
Did they make a running change on the EKAR and Chorus 48/32 cranks? They are now 24mm Axles with an adjuster ring. Mine is old style I believe.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... 22_ENG.pdf

They don't show up in the earlier 2022 Tech documents https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _Rev01.pdf
These are not listed on Campagnolo's B2B at all! I wonder if they were an abortive attempt to make it easier to fit in an OEM factory. No need for wave washers or the like. Fits a Shimano BB and then the slack is taken up by the adjuster ring. Probably stillborn.
Chorus is still a standard UT fit, as is Ekar - there is no "old" or "new" in this instance.

The 24mm axle crank with a preload collar which is being supplied is a specific UT adaptation for e-Bike, made for a specific client.
It's not the intention to do anything radical or different with UT.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

JensNL
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by JensNL

graeme_f_k wrote: ProTech simply has an additional, exterior seal ring placed on it and the cup is differently shaped inside to accommodate that seal - the same overall depth, so no, a 7mm wide bearing
I want to build a bike with Record on a bike with a T47 68mm bottom bracket. Campagnolo does not have UT cups for this. Alternatives are expensive. If the UT and Pro Tech bearings are the same size, can I replace the Record UT bearings with Pro Tech bearings and cups?

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

JensNL wrote:
Tue May 09, 2023 8:31 pm
graeme_f_k wrote: ProTech simply has an additional, exterior seal ring placed on it and the cup is differently shaped inside to accommodate that seal - the same overall depth, so no, a 7mm wide bearing
I want to build a bike with Record on a bike with a T47 68mm bottom bracket. Campagnolo does not have UT cups for this. Alternatives are expensive. If the UT and Pro Tech bearings are the same size, can I replace the Record UT bearings with Pro Tech bearings and cups?
Yes, you can, no problem at all - but ...

Sales Cod. OC22-T4768
Ind. Cod. 0112759
outboard cups ULTRA-TORQUE - T47x68
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

JensNL
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by JensNL

Thanks, Graeme, that is very helpful.

tiberiade
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by tiberiade

DrimeOser wrote:
Tue May 09, 2023 10:12 am
Ekar is a diva pretty much! Did you have the hanger checeked for alignment? That would be the to-go approach when shifting is inconsistent.
I have been told that my hanger was too soft. Think it could be the issue?

DrimeOser
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:35 pm

by DrimeOser

That might be the case. Ekar also has quite some tension on the chain because of the strong clutch.

My realtionship with Ekar is a love/hate one. When everything works, I love it for its simplicity and wonderful 13-speed gearing. But then, again and again, I have creaks from the cassette, a little rattling of the chain here and there, ergonomics in the hoods is not the best with the little notch at the bars and the need to rotate the hand for the thumb shifter...

I think in its second generation, if those niggles are fixed, Ekar will be sweet all over.

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eurperg
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by eurperg

The notch at the bars can be filled with pieces of bar tape. Tightening the cassette harder helps with creaks. Clutch tension can be adjusted with a Dremel…

DrimeOser
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by DrimeOser

eurperg wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 7:07 am
The notch at the bars can be filled with pieces of bar tape. Tightening the cassette harder helps with creaks. Clutch tension can be adjusted with a Dremel…
Filled the notch. But, it shouldn't be there at the first place. Tightened the cassette with all power I have: didnt make the creaking dissapear though. And for the clutch: sorry Campag, but I won't dremel down the spring. That is not my job.

tiberiade
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon May 08, 2023 6:02 pm

by tiberiade

DrimeOser wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 7:04 am
That might be the case. Ekar also has quite some tension on the chain because of the strong clutch.

My realtionship with Ekar is a love/hate one. When everything works, I love it for its simplicity and wonderful 13-speed gearing. But then, again and again, I have creaks from the cassette, a little rattling of the chain here and there, ergonomics in the hoods is not the best with the little notch at the bars and the need to rotate the hand for the thumb shifter...

I think in its second generation, if those niggles are fixed, Ekar will be sweet all over.
Ok thanks. Will keep tinkering.

Also having issues with the chainring bolts now that don't stay screwed in. Any tips?

gwerziou
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Location: Ballard, WA

by gwerziou

I think the tension on the derailleur clutch is a bit high. No other issues at all. I really love the shifter.
• A hi-zoot bike, pretty sweet
• An old bike, more fun than the new one actually
• Unicycle, no brand name visible

DrimeOser
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by DrimeOser

Locktite

MauriceBrocco
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am

by MauriceBrocco

graeme_f_k wrote:
Tue May 09, 2023 4:42 pm
MauriceBrocco wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:09 am
Does anyone know whether the Ekar bearings have the same 6mm width as the ultra torque bearings? Because that's a proprietary design. I'd love to find a way to fit 7mm bearings. That would open the door to using nice NTN or SKF bearings, which would probably run much smoother and last forever. I wonder if you could fit 7mm bearings into the Protech cups because of the additional space that's in there for the enormous rubber seal.
hence we see issues sometimes fitting third-party generic bearings, even very high quality (in terms of their ISO or ABEC rating) into manufacturer assemblies - occasionally the bearing will tighten up, or be a slip fit where it should be an interference fit ...
Thx for clarifying, Graeme.
I'm a long time Campy user and I've seen many different iterations of UT cranks. I got most of them used from various sources, therefore many of them had different bearings fitted. Your post explains why I observed significant differences in how tightly some bearings were sitting on the steel axle. Sometimes they say quite tight. And then on an older Centaur crank I had, you could almost slide it on by hand. I thought the interface was just worn but then again it might just have been a slightly oversized inner race on the bearing.

MauriceBrocco
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am

by MauriceBrocco

That being said: At least in Germany where I live, in industry supply stores where you can get bearings of all standards, sizes and from all manufacturers, 6805N bearings are available yes, but they are a bit of an obscurity. There are not even remotely as many options as with standard 6805 bearings. And also, from an engineering point of view I really don't see why Campag has to use them in their Ultra Torque setup. Maybe to accomodate the outer seals on the cranks and still keep a narrow Q-factor? But that's just a guess. The Q-factor argument is overrated anyway IMO.

Anyway, considering the price difference between "original" UT bearings and high quality options from SKF and the likes, it doesn't really make a difference anyway. UT bearings are actually not that expensive and I've found them to be quite long lasting usually.

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