1x Campagnolo Ekar drivetrain

The spirit of Grav-lo-cross. No but seriously, cyclocross and gravel go here!

Moderator: Moderator Team

Post Reply
morrisond
Posts: 1325
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

ultimobici wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:35 pm
morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:12 pm
So basically you don't know the answer to my question. And stating it won't work was you just being difficult with no real knowledge whatsoever.

Yes according to what I recall of the information presented at launch - Cup depths/shapes are different to account for diferent seals - I doubt the bearings are narrower.

And yes I doubt the systems are interchangeable either - I doubt you can use Protech Bearings seals with UT cups and I doubt you can use UT bearings with Protech cups. However UT bearings with UT cups could possibly work. You haven't given me any reason they won't except for maybe.

As I have the parts and tools - I might as well try. It will be pretty obvious if the bearings won't go on or are too loose. If that fails I'll just put the old bearings back on.
I wasn't suggesting mixing bearings & cups.

Since the drive side bearing & seal are fixed to the axle with a clip, any discrepency in overall thickness will either result in a loose bearing or difficulty fititng the circlip. That's your first issue. The second issue that is likely to rear it's head is the distance between the faces of the cups being ever so slightly off. If they are too close together, you may be able to shim the cups to correct it. If it's the other way, the only way to sort it will be to face the BB shell to below normal spec. That is a little too extreme.

Best option is to get the bearings you have and measure them. Then see if you can source ceramics to fit.

I'm not saying this from pure guess work. I worked for a CSS for almost 13 years. I have heard why it won't work from the horses mouth. But it is your money you want to burn.
That is a much better answer and what I was looking for. Thank you.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
ultimobici
in the industry
Posts: 4460
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Trento, Italia
Contact:

by ultimobici

morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:10 pm
That is a much better answer and what I was looking for. Thank you.
Happy to help. I will be visiting my old work later this week and will try to get a vernier on the parts to compare.

morrisond
Posts: 1325
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

Did they make a running change on the EKAR and Chorus 48/32 cranks? They are now 24mm Axles with an adjuster ring. Mine is old style I believe.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... 22_ENG.pdf

They don't show up in the earlier 2022 Tech documents https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _Rev01.pdf

User avatar
ultimobici
in the industry
Posts: 4460
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Trento, Italia
Contact:

by ultimobici

morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:23 pm
Did they make a running change on the EKAR and Chorus 48/32 cranks? They are now 24mm Axles with an adjuster ring. Mine is old style I believe.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... 22_ENG.pdf

They don't show up in the earlier 2022 Tech documents https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _Rev01.pdf
These are not listed on Campagnolo's B2B at all! I wonder if they were an abortive attempt to make it easier to fit in an OEM factory. No need for wave washers or the like. Fits a Shimano BB and then the slack is taken up by the adjuster ring. Probably stillborn.

morrisond
Posts: 1325
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

ultimobici wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:45 pm
morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:23 pm
Did they make a running change on the EKAR and Chorus 48/32 cranks? They are now 24mm Axles with an adjuster ring. Mine is old style I believe.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... 22_ENG.pdf

They don't show up in the earlier 2022 Tech documents https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _Rev01.pdf
These are not listed on Campagnolo's B2B at all! I wonder if they were an abortive attempt to make it easier to fit in an OEM factory. No need for wave washers or the like. Fits a Shimano BB and then the slack is taken up by the adjuster ring. Probably stillborn.
Why would it still be in Tech docs?

The Campy existing system is pretty simple - I don't see how anyone can screw that up - but I guess they do. Fitting a Shimano BB could be a good thing though.

User avatar
Miller
Posts: 2764
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:33 pm
The Campy existing system is pretty simple - I don't see how anyone can screw that up - but I guess they do. Fitting a Shimano BB could be a good thing though.
Never seen a thing about that adjuster ring before, that is interesting. Not very elegant but pragmatic. I wonder if Campag have decided the necessity for UT cups was a blocker to getting Campag components onto bikes. As you say, compatibility with Shimano BBs opens that up.

gwerziou
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:25 pm
Location: Ballard, WA

by gwerziou

morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:12 pm
ultimobici wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:05 pm
morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:43 pm
I really don't care about the warranty, EKAR cranks are cheap enough, and if for some bizarre reason this caused it to fail - just pop the old bearings back on - however I doubt I would even do that - too much hassle.

Why wouldn't normal UT bearings work on an EKAR axle with normal UT cranks and UT cups? Looking at the Tech docs It looks like the interface between the axle and crank arms is slighlty different but then again - I found a BikeRumour reference stating it is a normal UT axle?

And yes I doubt the systems are interchangeable either - I doubt you can use Protech Bearings seals with UT cups and I doubt you can use UT bearings with Protech cups. However UT bearings with UT cups could possibly work. You haven't given me any reason they won't except for maybe.

As I have the parts and tools - I might as well try. It will be pretty obvious if the bearings won't go on or are too loose. If that fails I'll just put the old bearings back on.
I recall that someone on one forum has already successfully used Ekar cranks (with Record bearings) on a UT BB successfully, so it'll be quite interesting to see what you discover.
• A hi-zoot bike, pretty sweet
• An old bike, more fun than the new one actually
• Unicycle, no brand name visible

Volsung
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:08 pm

by Volsung

My answer got glossed over in the passionate forum battle, but I used the exact same Kogel bearings and UT cups on my Ekar crankset and got the creaking.

It was still better than the trashed bearings that came pre installed. Those things wouldn't spin in the stand more than a half turn. I eventually went back to protech cups and new bearings and it's been fine.

AC0
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:33 am

by AC0

Volsung wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:58 am
My answer got glossed over in the passionate forum battle, but I used the exact same Kogel bearings and UT cups on my Ekar crankset and got the creaking.

It was still better than the trashed bearings that came pre installed. Those things wouldn't spin in the stand more than a half turn. I eventually went back to protech cups and new bearings and it's been fine.
Starting @ 51 min there is a discussion of the Ekar/Protech crank and BB in this podcast

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2072753/1156 ... stone-king

Graeme says you can use a UT bearing AND cup setup on a Ekar crank.

User avatar
ultimobici
in the industry
Posts: 4460
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Trento, Italia
Contact:

by ultimobici

AC0 wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:20 pm
Volsung wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:58 am
My answer got glossed over in the passionate forum battle, but I used the exact same Kogel bearings and UT cups on my Ekar crankset and got the creaking.

It was still better than the trashed bearings that came pre installed. Those things wouldn't spin in the stand more than a half turn. I eventually went back to protech cups and new bearings and it's been fine.
Starting @ 51 min there is a discussion of the Ekar/Protech crank and BB in this podcast

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2072753/1156 ... stone-king

Graeme says you can use a UT bearing AND cup setup on a Ekar crank.
Well, if Graeme says it works, that's good enough for me.

MauriceBrocco
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am

by MauriceBrocco

Does anyone know whether the Ekar bearings have the same 6mm width as the ultra torque bearings? Because that's a proprietary design. I'd love to find a way to fit 7mm bearings. That would open the door to using nice NTN or SKF bearings, which would probably run much smoother and last forever. I wonder if you could fit 7mm bearings into the Protech cups because of the additional space that's in there for the enormous rubber seal.

Volsung
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:08 pm

by Volsung

Yeah I can only speak from experience. Graeme did say that maintenance will greatly increased, so maybe it was noisy because I didn't take everything apart after riding some gravel.

User avatar
eurperg
Posts: 936
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Finland

by eurperg

^^ EKAR bearings are just the same as other Campgnolo crank bearings. The additional shield just pressed over the standard bearing.

MauriceBrocco
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am

by MauriceBrocco

eurperg wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:34 pm
^^ EKAR bearings are just the same as other Campgnolo crank bearings. The additional shield just pressed over the standard bearing.
I see. So that means there has to be more room in the Protech cups than in the regular ones? I might just give it a try and fit 7mm bearings into Protech cups. I got a 53/39 Centaur crankset and a steel frame lying around that I could try this with.

tiberiade
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon May 08, 2023 6:02 pm

by tiberiade

Hey everyone, I've been experimenting with Ekar for about 1,000km of gravel and I'm accumulating technical issues. Essentially, it's about impossible to keep the shifting working properly for more than 50-100km. I've had some of the most reputable bikeshops work on it (including The Service Course in Girona) but no one seems to be able to figure it out. Usually it's shifting up to smaller gears that becomes an issue (towards 44T). Any pointers?

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply