1x Campagnolo Ekar drivetrain

[de lars cuevas]

The bleed down issue is one that has been discussed on this forum and on others. No one knows what the issue is but there are those who have regularly experienced bleed down in less than 1000 km of use, me included. Bleeding brakes every two weeks is not accepatable. We'll see if the bleed valve replacement is the issue. We should be getting 6000 km or more from a bleed. It's been a real disappointment for me having been a Campy customer for over 50 years.

I had the same problem twice on my Canyon Grizl. First time within a few months. Gradually lost my front pressure. Pads were contaminated too. Thought it was a sweaty caliper. Bled with official kit, put new pads in... same problem within two Months.

A local Shop then bled it for me under Canyon warranty support. Has been good so far.

[LeManchot]

Yes, based on the volume of riding I do, I often have to bleed the brakes every couple of weeks and have communicated this to the shop where I purchased the bike and to Campagnolo. The attiude from the shop and Campy has been, let's say, not inspiring. My local shop (not the shop where I bought the bike) doesn't use the Campy bleed process and, so far, I am seeing better performance (up to 2000 km and counting on thier bleed of my brakes). Time will tell. Glad to hear that you have not experienced any bleed issues and let's hope that that continues!

[graeme_f_k]

for #2, tighten the upper cassette assembly bolts - I have not been able to find a torque spec for those bolts in any of the Campy literature on Ekar. Anyone know what the torque spec is for those bolts?

When I was working to quieten an Ekar cassette creak the other day I experimentally felt the tightness of those bolts. On my cassette they are extremely tight. I guess Campag doesn't quote torque specs because they don't think anyone should be touching those bolts.

After half a year with Ekar I don't think much about the mechanical version needs to be improved. As already noted, reduce incidence of cassette creaking, maybe make the gnarly clutch mechanism more user friendly somehow. However I'm sure a wireless WRL version at a feasible price would fly out of the shops.

You are correct - removal / retightening of those bolts by final customers is not recommended & risks voiding warranty.

Replacement of the spacer is a SC operation so that any other issue that might exist within the cassette that may be causing creak (including being able to ascertain whether the problem lies with the cassette or the cassette body) can be identified ... any creaking issue is likely to occur within the warranty period so any further fix required, up to and including a new cassette, is usually available under warranty.

We have the torque setting at the SCs.

[graeme_f_k]

I have about 20,000 km (12,500 miles) with Campy Ekar on an Open Wide. 65% gravel, 30% road, 5% single track. So far reliability of the drivetrain has been very good. Brake bleeding has been problematic however. Campy has recently replaced the bleed port valve assembly. We'll see if that resolves the issue of rapid (<500 km) bleed down that I and many others have experienced.

I've recently switched from an Easton EC70 handlebar to the Coefficent RR handlebar. The "notch" between the brake lever (aka "control" in Campagnolo-speak) and the bar on the trailing portion of the lever assembly is negligent on the Easton bars and quite significant on the Coefficent bars. Plan to fill with 3mm Bondcush and hopefully get a more comfotable transistion. The Coefficent bars are awsome!

The cassette squeaks that I have had have reliably been due to two things: 1. dirt finding its way between the cassette and the freehub and 2. the bolts holding the upper (larger) part of the casstte together can get loose"ish". For #1, remove the cassette and clean up the contact surfaces; for #2, tighten the upper cassette assembly bolts - I have not been able to find a torque spec for those bolts in any of the Campy literature on Ekar. Anyone know what the torque spec is for those bolts?

If those bolts are working loose, something is wrong.
This should be reported to the market SC and the cassette returned to them under warranty.

[graeme_f_k]

Yes, based on the volume of riding I do, I often have to bleed the brakes every couple of weeks and have communicated this to the shop where I purchased the bike and to Campagnolo. The attiude from the shop and Campy has been, let's say, not inspiring. My local shop (not the shop where I bought the bike) doesn't use the Campy bleed process and, so far, I am seeing better performance (up to 2000 km and counting on thier bleed of my brakes). Time will tell. Glad to hear that you have not experienced any bleed issues and let's hope that that continues!

Why are you bleediung the brakes?
Are you seeing any fluid loss and / or are the brakes "going spongey"?

This really pought to be addressed by the retailer who set the brakes up initially - hiowever, I think there are a lot of shops out there now without good training on hydraulics and whilst they may be able to do a vanilla installation, if they make a mistake they don't have enough knowledge to recify it.

I've set up well into the 100s of Campagnolo disc brakes now and not yet seen a serious issue.

Suggestions are:
1. On a newly bled system, before reassumbling pads and wheels, with the bleed blocks in place, put two strong rubber bands around the levers to pull the brakes hard "on". Leave overnight and inspect. If there are traces of oil at the banjo on the lever, at the bleed nipple or caliper union, you have a bad seal at those locatioons.

If it's a really slow leak, sometimes this overnight test is needed to identifty it. This is "hydraulics 101" but a lot of shops / techs don't do it.

If the leak is very small, the lever position relative to the handlebar will barely change so a close look at the likely leak points is needed.

If the levers have moved, it's also worth inspecting the hose close to the banjo and to the caliper. It is possible, most probably at the caliper's olive / barb union (I have never seen the factory-fitted banjos allow this to happen), that fluid has forced it's way between the plies of the hose - this is most likely to happen where the cut end of the hose is not dead square, ragged, or the barb is not fully home in the end of the hose. In this case the system will gradually lose fluid but there will be no external leak visible. Such leaks can be very slow so a hose check is worthwhile in any ase, if you have had a long term problem with this.

2. If the system is being re-bled because it is becoming spongy, check that the caliper is still pulling centrally on the rotor - the sponge that you feel may be one piston pushing the rotor across to meet the other, possibly slower-moving or even seized piston - this will delevlop slowly over time as one pad will weare faster than the other and it will appear to be fixed by bleeding as that will re-centre the pistons either side of the rotor after the initial pump up.

You'll be able to see this in a fully assembled system, by simply looking at the edge of the rotor as you pull the brake on - the rotor should not move at all, axially, as the brake is applied.

3. Check that the brake mounts ahve been faced so that the brake is sitting on a hard, square surface, not paint. Paint can squirm or crack, alloowing the caliper to move about, so causing a de-centring effect.

If all of the above fails to resolve, return the caliper(s), lever(s) and hose(s) to the market SC for full assessment under warranty.

If this is happening to both brakes, I'd lay very long odds that it's anything other than an installation issue of some sort.

[LeManchot]

Hi Graeme,

Thanks for the detailed reply - very much appreciated coming from an experienced tech person like yourself!

I've bled the brakes at least 30 times (between two bikes - mine and my wife's that have the exact same frames (OPEN), componentry (Ekar), and wheels (Shamal)). The first "bleed down" occurred on my bike after about 1500 kms and similarly for the second bike. The bikes were built at a shop some distance (<300 miles/500 km) from where I live, so going back to the original builder was problematic. In my local region Campagnolo is a "foreign" component that, at the time, no shop was confident to work on. So I purchased the Campagnolo bleed kit, red mineral oil fluid, and self-taught myself with the official Campagnolo written and video instructions for bleeding the Ekar brakes. My experience has been that, immediately after my bleeding of the brakes, they are tight, responsive, and work as expected. But sometime between 800 and 1000 km of use they become spongy and then quickly degrade to essentially inoperable. This has repeated many, many times. I have done the "rubber band overnight" protocol many times as well and have found no evidence of any hydrualic fluid leaks anywhere, including the banjo fitting. On discussions with some experienced techs, it was suggested that I was not getting all of the air out and that it was migrating to the control and producing the sponginess and eventual failure. It was further suggested that I tilt the bike around during bleeding to do everything I can to get any trapped air out of the system. Again, I've done this many times with no success. I just continued to bleed the brakes regularly just so I could ride. Then, this spring, there was a recall on our bike frames and we just happened to be traveling through the city where the bikes were built and had that shop take care of the recall and do full tune-ups of both bikes including brake bleeds. This is a large, high-end only, reputable shop that does mainly custom builds. We got the bikes back a week later and all was fine... for less than 100 km when both front brakes went dead. Given our remote location relative to the original build shop, I again looked locally and found a new bike shop had opened that has expertise with Campagnolo and was willing to work on the bikes. They bled both brakes on both bikes and we have ridden over 4000 km each with no brake issues. The local shop does not use the offcial Camagnolo bleed process and they used the blue mineral oil fluid instead of the red, since that is what they have in stock and the red fluid is very difficult to come by in the US. At this point, it seems that bleeding the Campagnolo brakes is something of an art and/or requires extensive experience, that thier official bleed process is not robust, and is therefore difficult for a home mechanic to master. That's too bad because this is not true for Shimano or SRAM (not that they don't have some other issues).

Our experience with Camagnolo warranty here in the US has not been great. There are few (if any) Campagnolo Service Centers, parts are rare, and shops basically don't want anything to do with Campagnolo components. If I had known this prior to building these bikes, I would have given serious consideration of Shimano and SRAM. My history with Campagnolo components dates to Nuovo Record in the 1970s and Super Record in the 1980's. We switched to mountain biking from 1994 through about 2020 with occasional road cycling on the Campagnolo-equiped vintage steel bikes (Masi and Ciocc) and lost touch with what Campoagnolo was up to, particularly in the US. When we decided to get into gravel cycling, we thought, based on our past experience, that only Campagnolo would be a suitable component choice. Our experience has tarnished that decision, but I am very happy with the performance of the Ekar groupset now that it seems that the brake issues are resolved. At this point, the only change I am considering is switching to the 3T Torno crank. Thanks again for your detailed reply.

[Vespasianus]

Hi Graeme,

Thanks for the detailed reply - very much appreciated coming from an experienced tech person like yourself!

I've bled the brakes at least 30 times (between two bikes - mine and my wife's that have the exact same frames (OPEN), componentry (Ekar), and wheels (Shamal)). The first "bleed down" occurred on my bike after about 1500 kms and similarly for the second bike. The bikes were built at a shop some distance (<300 miles/500 km) from where I live, so going back to the original builder was problematic. In my local region Campagnolo is a "foreign" component that, at the time, no shop was confident to work on. So I purchased the Campagnolo bleed kit, red mineral oil fluid, and self-taught myself with the official Campagnolo written and video instructions for bleeding the Ekar brakes. My experience has been that, immediately after my bleeding of the brakes, they are tight, responsive, and work as expected. But sometime between 800 and 1000 km of use they become spongy and then quickly degrade to essentially inoperable. This has repeated many, many times. I have done the "rubber band overnight" protocol many times as well and have found no evidence of any hydrualic fluid leaks anywhere, including the banjo fitting. On discussions with some experienced techs, it was suggested that I was not getting all of the air out and that it was migrating to the control and producing the sponginess and eventual failure. It was further suggested that I tilt the bike around during bleeding to do everything I can to get any trapped air out of the system. Again, I've done this many times with no success. I just continued to bleed the brakes regularly just so I could ride. Then, this spring, there was a recall on our bike frames and we just happened to be traveling through the city where the bikes were built and had that shop take care of the recall and do full tune-ups of both bikes including brake bleeds. This is a large, high-end only, reputable shop that does mainly custom builds. We got the bikes back a week later and all was fine... for less than 100 km when both front brakes went dead. Given our remote location relative to the original build shop, I again looked locally and found a new bike shop had opened that has expertise with Campagnolo and was willing to work on the bikes. They bled both brakes on both bikes and we have ridden over 4000 km each with no brake issues. The local shop does not use the offcial Camagnolo bleed process and they used the blue mineral oil fluid instead of the red, since that is what they have in stock and the red fluid is very difficult to come by in the US. At this point, it seems that bleeding the Campagnolo brakes is something of an art and/or requires extensive experience, that thier official bleed process is not robust, and is therefore difficult for a home mechanic to master. That's too bad because this is not true for Shimano or SRAM (not that they don't have some other issues).

Our experience with Camagnolo warranty here in the US has not been great. There are few (if any) Campagnolo Service Centers, parts are rare, and shops basically don't want anything to do with Campagnolo components. If I had known this prior to building these bikes, I would have given serious consideration of Shimano and SRAM. My history with Campagnolo components dates to Nuovo Record in the 1970s and Super Record in the 1980's. We switched to mountain biking from 1994 through about 2020 with occasional road cycling on the Campagnolo-equiped vintage steel bikes (Masi and Ciocc) and lost touch with what Campoagnolo was up to, particularly in the US. When we decided to get into gravel cycling, we thought, based on our past experience, that only Campagnolo would be a suitable component choice. Our experience has tarnished that decision, but I am very happy with the performance of the Ekar groupset now that it seems that the brake issues are resolved. At this point, the only change I am considering is switching to the 3T Torno crank. Thanks again for your detailed reply.

Where in the USA are you? Bleeding Campagnolo brakes is not that much different than any other disc brake. Your statement that "At this point, it seems that bleeding the Campagnolo brakes is something of an art and/or requires extensive experience, that thier official bleed process is not robust, and is therefore difficult for a home mechanic to master." is just plain 100% wrong. You are taking your one example, and maybe one other, and extrapolating something that is just plain silly. Your "bleed down" comment that you say is a common issue is basically you and one other person on this site. There is nothing of the sort on the Paceline EKAR forum or Facebook page for Campag.

I am a "home mechanic" and not that good, but have had disc brakes on my mountain bikes - Shimano now, Sram and Hayes in the past, and set up the EKAR brakes and similar H11 disc brakes without any issue. I am close to 15,000 miles on my H11 bike and have not had to do a bleed except for when I cut the line for frame repair. My EKAR bike has close to 5000 miles and I have not touched the brake lines. Am I extrapolating ? No, as there are literally 1000's of EKAR group sets, if not more, that are out there, with no major brake issue - in fact it is the opposite, were people highlight the quality of the brakes.

Your statment that a new shop bleed your brakes, and now they are fine for 4000 miles most likely identifies the problem, a poor bleed. There is nothing wrong with the design of the Campagnolo disc brake system. Period.

[stanvr]

Has anyone tried a Garbaruk chainring with Ekar to good succes?

[MauriceBrocco]

Has anyone tried a Garbaruk chainring with Ekar to good succes?

AFAIK Garbaruk doesn't offer chainrings which are officially 13sp compatible.
I'm using a 13sp 1X chainring by Ratio Components on a Sram Red crankset with powermeter.
Works absolutely fine.

[MauriceBrocco]

Has anyone tried a Garbaruk chainring with Ekar to good succes?

double post

[MauriceBrocco]

Has anyone tried a Garbaruk chainring with Ekar to good succes?

triple post. Sorry!

[Yoln]

I'm considering adding a second wheelset more allroady style, with a lighter cassette and thinner tires. Any alternative solution for the cassette?

I asked around and no manufacturer (recon, ethirteen, miche) seem to even plan for making an Ekar alternative cassette in the near future...

Can't find anything on Aliexpress

Could I use a Rotor 13s cassette with Ekar?

I'm not opposed to a good amount of DIY if somebody has an idea for a lighter 13s than Campy's provided one

[stanvr]

I'm not opposed to a good amount of DIY if somebody has an idea for a lighter 13s than Campy's provided one

I was thinking this too, I'm building a new gravel bike as we speak with Ekar, I have the 9-42 cassette which came in at a darn 399 grams... I took it apart to remove the (sometimes) rattly spacer, that saves 4 grams, not a lot. However, I also weighed the carrier which I measured at 47 grams. I think that piece looks a little over engineered, so I think it's definitely possible to drill/dremel a few grams there. Alternatively, making a spider from carbon could also save weight I'd recon. I think my gravelbike is going to turn out not too heavy, but if it's just a few grams north of something (7.5 eg) I'll probably start drilling in the cassette spider.

[de lars cuevas]

I'm not opposed to a good amount of DIY if somebody has an idea for a lighter 13s than Campy's provided one

I was thinking this too, I'm building a new gravel bike as we speak with Ekar, I have the 9-42 cassette which came in at a darn 399 grams... I took it apart to remove the (sometimes) rattly spacer, that saves 4 grams,

Yes, good idea to remove the spacer and then torque it down nice and hard...

... Now where's my irony smiley.

[Yoln]

I'm not opposed to a good amount of DIY if somebody has an idea for a lighter 13s than Campy's provided one

I was thinking this too, I'm building a new gravel bike as we speak with Ekar, I have the 9-42 cassette which came in at a darn 399 grams... I took it apart to remove the (sometimes) rattly spacer, that saves 4 grams,

Yes, good idea to remove the spacer and then torque it down nice and hard...

... Now where's my irony smiley.

Not sure what's the irony for. Spacer isn't structural, and even when torquing nice and hard it keeps rattling, proving that it is absolutely useless for the structure. It's just there to protect the freehub body from rain and dirt, which I don't care about, so I remove it, it's quiet and lighter.