Gravel tire rolling resistance tested

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jfranci3
Posts: 1572
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

Pirelli is making it as consufing as possible to pick a tire from their lineup! I was just shopping for a 45c tire for sand and sloppy days. The M ,RC, and S would have fit the bill. It's really confusing as to how they see the landscape.

Looking a little closer, these look like cheaper versions of the existing range on the 60tpi casing

Code: Select all

                                   60tpi  (cheap, durable)                   120tpi (fancy, less durable)
Mostly Road / no mud                     Allroad                              (Their 34c road tires I assume)
Mostly Road/ easy gravel /no mud         Adventure                                 H
Road with some mud  / rounded rocks                                                M
Sharp & chunky rocks/no mud              RC                                      (N/A)
Fully off road / soft/ sand over hard    S                                       (N/A)
I'm not sure why they didn't put a more consistent treadblock on the center of the S to roll smoother or why they haven't updated the M to be less general.

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Nohands83
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:41 am
Location: Leeds, UK

by Nohands83

The M and H tyres are the first gen of tyres, so we might get a slight tweak in the near future to make them fit into the rest of the lineup .

The addition of the S makes sense to me as the M isn't good in proper mud, FYI you don't really want a consistent threadblock on a mud / soft tyre - the M has this which is probably the main reason it doesn't deal with mud particularly well.

The RC feels like the odd one out, if this was as fast as the H (or even the M) I could understand its position. Though in the real world, it might ride a lot faster than it tests...

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jfranci3
Posts: 1572
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

Nohands83 wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2023 1:41 pm
The M and H tyres are the first gen of tyres, so we might get a slight tweak in the near future to make them fit into the rest of the lineup .

The addition of the S makes sense to me as the M isn't good in proper mud, FYI you don't really want a consistent threadblock on a mud / soft tyre - the M has this which is probably the main reason it doesn't deal with mud particularly well.

The RC feels like the odd one out, if this was as fast as the H (or even the M) I could understand its position. Though in the real world, it might ride a lot faster than it tests...
Yeah, the M looks to have come from their CX tire mold. On the MTB version, the "M" has the tread pattern of the RC with deeper knobs, the S has the same depth as the M but with larger, more spaced out knobs - so the M is between the RC and S in terms of knobs. Still they don't provide any recommendations for end-customers.
I dont think the RC is all that much of an outlier. One thing that seems to really affect BRR results is the length of the side knobs. More square "1x1" knobs perform better than the rectangular "2x1" knobs. The M and S have longer side knobs, while the RC and H have.

HMITCHR
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:31 pm

by HMITCHR

Just set up my first pair of Challenge Strada Bianca Pro HTLR in 40mm. I've been running Rene Herse slicks for years but wanted to give the Challenge a shot as they test faster, and I love the yellow sidewall.

Dear lord, they were the hardest tires to set up I have ever dealt with, over years and years of setting up my own tubeless tires. Just absurdly brutal to get the damn things onto the rim. I was setting them up on some new Farsports gravel wheels with 24 and 26mm internal hookless rims. I typically can do most tires I'm about 20min, and I fought with these tires for over an hour and a half. My hands are going to be sore and raw for sure.

Excited to see how they ride because everyone I have heard claims to absolutely love them, but unless it is a night and day difference in feel and speed compared to Rene Herse slicks, I just can't see myself making them my go to.

stevesbike
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:33 pm

by stevesbike

jfranci3 wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:49 pm
Nohands83 wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2023 1:41 pm
The M and H tyres are the first gen of tyres, so we might get a slight tweak in the near future to make them fit into the rest of the lineup .

The addition of the S makes sense to me as the M isn't good in proper mud, FYI you don't really want a consistent threadblock on a mud / soft tyre - the M has this which is probably the main reason it doesn't deal with mud particularly well.

The RC feels like the odd one out, if this was as fast as the H (or even the M) I could understand its position. Though in the real world, it might ride a lot faster than it tests...
Yeah, the M looks to have come from their CX tire mold. On the MTB version, the "M" has the tread pattern of the RC with deeper knobs, the S has the same depth as the M but with larger, more spaced out knobs - so the M is between the RC and S in terms of knobs. Still they don't provide any recommendations for end-customers.
I dont think the RC is all that much of an outlier. One thing that seems to really affect BRR results is the length of the side knobs. More square "1x1" knobs perform better than the rectangular "2x1" knobs. The M and S have longer side knobs, while the RC and H have.
The RC looks to have a faster rolling center tread than the M and more grip than the H - guessing the 60tpi casing is supposed offer a bit more flat protection too. Could be an interesting tire for something like Unbound. I raced the M at the Rock Cobbler that had everything - deep mud, sand, technical singletrack, rocks and they performed very well. There wasn't a ton of road sections but they felt plenty fast on those sections and will likely be my default race tire except for events like the BWR where there's a lot of road. On my 27mm internal rims they come in about 2mm above size.

Aesch
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:09 pm

by Aesch

satanas wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:06 pm
Aesch wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:43 pm
Vredestein Aventura might work @38mm. My 44mm ones blow up to 46 in 26iw rims.
^ Can you say anything about when the Aventuras do or dont work please, including cornering on the road? I've only seen pics, no reviews if any sort. I'm also considering the Pirelli Gravel H; it's dry hardpack near me, with the occasional sand patch.
They work on everything from road to pretty muddy conditions. Only really sticky mud fills up the tracks. r they'll slide in sand.

satanas
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

Thank you! ;)

BRyder
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:56 am

by BRyder

The following is bit of a ramble. I have a gravel/road route which I ride 100-120km with mix of 60% road/40% gravel.

I've ridden the route on
Pathfinders 42mm Sworks
Pathfinders 38mm
Strada Biancha 36 htlr
Gravel king Sk
Cinturato 45 m
Cinturato 45 S

The tyres I've used have the extremes of results from Rolling resistance results.
For very very similar power(250w) my average speed for the route is with 1.5km/h for all the tyres.
I can gain a little on the hard pack with the slicks, the Cinturato S super grippy in the slippery sections.

I really enjoy BRR but once on the gravel, the real life application seems very blurred.

kervelo
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:58 am
Location: Finland

by kervelo

BRyder wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:28 pm
I really enjoy BRR but once on the gravel, the real life application seems very blurred.
The BRR measurements are fine for slick road tyres, but for the gravel tyres the data is almost useless.

yinzerniner
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

kervelo wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:31 am
BRyder wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:28 pm
I really enjoy BRR but once on the gravel, the real life application seems very blurred.
The BRR measurements are fine for slick road tyres, but for the gravel tyres the data is almost useless.
Kind of disagree on this. Although "gravel" is such a catch all phrase, independent testing has consistently confirmed that "faster" tires generally test faster in various road surface conditions. What changes is the grip/traction/comfort levels of various tires and how those can affect rider performance / speed.

Personally think the results from wheel energy that Leonard Zinn published carry a bit more water vs the BRR results, as the testing methodology seems more sophisticated and real-world valid. But the results from those tests seem to correlate with the BRR results.
https://www.velonews.com/gear/gravel-ge ... for-speed/

BRyder
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:56 am

by BRyder

Yeah I think it is the varied nature of gravel which really confuses the application of those results.
The Strada Biacha I have are the fastest ones in all the tests.
But they certainly aren't 20-30W faster on gravel. They are a sensational tyre on the tarmac road surface.

Vespasianus
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:15 pm

by Vespasianus

HMITCHR wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:10 am
Just set up my first pair of Challenge Strada Bianca Pro HTLR in 40mm. I've been running Rene Herse slicks for years but wanted to give the Challenge a shot as they test faster, and I love the yellow sidewall.

Dear lord, they were the hardest tires to set up I have ever dealt with, over years and years of setting up my own tubeless tires. Just absurdly brutal to get the damn things onto the rim. I was setting them up on some new Farsports gravel wheels with 24 and 26mm internal hookless rims. I typically can do most tires I'm about 20min, and I fought with these tires for over an hour and a half. My hands are going to be sore and raw for sure.

Excited to see how they ride because everyone I have heard claims to absolutely love them, but unless it is a night and day difference in feel and speed compared to Rene Herse slicks, I just can't see myself making them my go to.
I would watch those tires for tubeless use. I have some Gravel Grinder pros TLR and when run tubeless, both on the front and the rear, the tread seperated and led to complete failure. They were easy to warrenty but when the first replacement did the same thing, I remove the other and moved on. It is now being run on another bike as a rear tire with tubes, and seems OK.
Cinelli Superstar - Campagnolo H11
Tommasini Custom X-Fire gravel - EKAR

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

Vespasianus wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:26 pm
HMITCHR wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:10 am
Just set up my first pair of Challenge Strada Bianca Pro HTLR in 40mm. I've been running Rene Herse slicks for years but wanted to give the Challenge a shot as they test faster, and I love the yellow sidewall.

Dear lord, they were the hardest tires to set up I have ever dealt with, over years and years of setting up my own tubeless tires. Just absurdly brutal to get the damn things onto the rim. I was setting them up on some new Farsports gravel wheels with 24 and 26mm internal hookless rims. I typically can do most tires I'm about 20min, and I fought with these tires for over an hour and a half. My hands are going to be sore and raw for sure.

Excited to see how they ride because everyone I have heard claims to absolutely love them, but unless it is a night and day difference in feel and speed compared to Rene Herse slicks, I just can't see myself making them my go to.
I would watch those tires for tubeless use. I have some Gravel Grinder pros TLR and when run tubeless, both on the front and the rear, the tread seperated and led to complete failure. They were easy to warrenty but when the first replacement did the same thing, I remove the other and moved on. It is now being run on another bike as a rear tire with tubes, and seems OK.
Every Challenge handmade tire I've had, tubeless or not, has had the sidewalls unravel or fall apart. It's something you have to monitor. But that's the first I've heard of tread separating, which is worrying.

I suspect their susceptibility over other handmade tires is that they're so difficult to get on the rims. You have to use a massive amount of force if you don't heat them up first. The ones I heated up first and applied bead wax to seated much easier and definitely held up better than the first couple of pairs I tried without. But it didn't eliminate the issue entirely.

voicycle
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:38 am

by voicycle

Image

Have seen this pop up on Facebook in the last couple days. Looks like new sizes incoming from conti. A Terra speed in 45 is a particularly good addition.


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steveadore
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:01 am

by steveadore

Does anyone have experience with the Wolfpack Gravel SuperSpeed 40mm tires yet? I was thinking about getting the S-Works Pathfinder 42s, but they are not cheap (and also hard to find), and I've had good experience with Wolfpack's light XC (mtb) tires.
Currently on 33mm (CX) Specialized Tracers, which I quite like, so switching to the 120tpi S-Works Tracers (also 33) is also an appealing option, but I'd rather try something wider. My rides are 70% road, 30% hardpack gravel mostly

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