Back to mechanical shifting and rim brakes: My journey

[froze]

Never mind that rim brake stopping power can actually be pretty decent: roads have got so bad in the last few years that you need wide rims and fat tyres for comfort. Anything narrower than 32mm just doesn't cut it, so I'm told.

I ride on 25mm, the roads don't bother me, and I'm 73 years old living in an area that gets freeze and thaw cycles that ruin concrete and asphalt roads, out in the country I ride on chip and seal, as well as gravel roads, 25mm tires don't bother me the least bit; so to say you need 32mm to ride on roads, is bit out there.

[TobinHatesYou]

I ride on 25mm, the roads don't bother me, and I'm 73 years old living in an area that gets freeze and thaw cycles that ruin concrete and asphalt roads, out in the country I ride on chip and seal, as well as gravel roads, 25mm tires don't bother me the least bit; so to say you need 32mm to ride on roads, is bit out there.

The faster you ride the more energy your tires need to absorb over gravel, paving stones, potholes, detritus, etc.

[froze]

I ride on 25mm, the roads don't bother me, and I'm 73 years old living in an area that gets freeze and thaw cycles that ruin concrete and asphalt roads, out in the country I ride on chip and seal, as well as gravel roads, 25mm tires don't bother me the least bit; so to say you need 32mm to ride on roads, is bit out there.

The faster you ride the more energy your tires need to absorb over gravel, paving stones, potholes, detritus, etc.

That depends on the psi you're using.

Look, in the 50s through till some time in the early 90's they raced the TDF on tires that were 19mm to 22mm with high psi of over 110, on rough roads mind you, and the average speed difference in the 2024 TDF with wider tires, many more gears, aerodynamic bikes, wheels, rider position, clothing, helmets, you name it it's all about being aero, lowest rolling resistance tires, better food, and training, watts counting everything, has only given us a gain of 3 mph since 1958!! Please don't preach on how much faster I'm going to go with fatter tires on roads as I mentioned that I ride on, it's purely a placebo effect. Now on gravel, I could go faster with wider tires, I'll give you that one, but I'm not racing so I could care less how fast I go on gravel, and the gravel that I do run into are small sections, maybe a mile or two long.

[TobinHatesYou]

That depends on the psi you're using.

Look, in the 50s through till some time in the early 90's they raced the TDF on tires that were 19mm to 22mm with high psi of over 110, on rough roads mind you, and the average speed difference in the 2024 TDF with wider tires, many more gears, aerodynamic bikes, wheels, rider position, clothing, helmets, you name it it's all about being aero, lowest rolling resistance tires, better food, and training, watts counting everything, has only given us a gain of 3 mph since 1958!! Please don't preach on how much faster I'm going to go with fatter tires on roads as I mentioned that I ride on, it's purely a placebo effect. Now on gravel, I could go faster with wider tires, I'll give you that one, but I'm not racing so I could care less how fast I go on gravel, and the gravel that I do run into are small sections, maybe a mile or two long.

The TdF is won by finishing in shorter time than everyone else, not by averaging faster than years gone by.

Also I wasn't saying you'd go faster on wide tires. I'm essentially saying that if you ride 10mph, you could ride 15c tires and be fine.

[jih]

That depends on the psi you're using.

Look, in the 50s through till some time in the early 90's they raced the TDF on tires that were 19mm to 22mm with high psi of over 110, on rough roads mind you, and the average speed difference in the 2024 TDF with wider tires, many more gears, aerodynamic bikes, wheels, rider position, clothing, helmets, you name it it's all about being aero, lowest rolling resistance tires, better food, and training, watts counting everything, has only given us a gain of 3 mph since 1958!!

3mph (about 5km/h in normal units) is HUGE over the course of a race. Going from averaging 40km/h to 45km/h over a 200km stage is over half an hour quicker.

If the 1950s guy rolled in half an hour after the 2024 guy you certainly wouldn't call the race "close".

[reedplayer]

I use a 28mm wide rim and 28mm Contis on my rim-bike. 30- or even 32mm wide tyres would be possibe as well, but i am good with 28mm (it is a pure road bike).

So, rim brake does not necessarily exclude wider tyres, using appropriate brakes and -frameset.

[froze]

That depends on the psi you're using.

Look, in the 50s through till some time in the early 90's they raced the TDF on tires that were 19mm to 22mm with high psi of over 110, on rough roads mind you, and the average speed difference in the 2024 TDF with wider tires, many more gears, aerodynamic bikes, wheels, rider position, clothing, helmets, you name it it's all about being aero, lowest rolling resistance tires, better food, and training, watts counting everything, has only given us a gain of 3 mph since 1958!! Please don't preach on how much faster I'm going to go with fatter tires on roads as I mentioned that I ride on, it's purely a placebo effect. Now on gravel, I could go faster with wider tires, I'll give you that one, but I'm not racing so I could care less how fast I go on gravel, and the gravel that I do run into are small sections, maybe a mile or two long.

The TdF is won by finishing in shorter time than everyone else, not by averaging faster than years gone by.

Also I wasn't saying you'd go faster on wide tires. I'm essentially saying that if you ride 10mph, you could ride 15c tires and be fine.

I didn't say that; you are just digging as loose sand. My point is that very little has changed with the supposedly vastly better technology. Please reread what I said and this time try to comprehend it.

[TobinHatesYou]

I didn't say that; you are just digging as loose sand. My point is that very little has changed with the supposedly vastly better technology. Please reread what I said and this time try to comprehend it.

You wrote tech has only gained riders about 5km/h since the 1950s, implying it has little effect. I pointed out that TdF winning average speeds don’t measure the value of tech, they don’t even really measure available speed gains.

[bobones]

Never mind that rim brake stopping power can actually be pretty decent: roads have got so bad in the last few years that you need wide rims and fat tyres for comfort. Anything narrower than 32mm just doesn't cut it, so I'm told.

I ride on 25mm, the roads don't bother me, and I'm 73 years old living in an area that gets freeze and thaw cycles that ruin concrete and asphalt roads, out in the country I ride on chip and seal, as well as gravel roads, 25mm tires don't bother me the least bit; so to say you need 32mm to ride on roads, is bit out there.

I actually agree with you. My post was an attempt at sarcasm, but that's the opinion of many on here and elsewhere. I am currently switching between 25s and 40s, and I've rode every width in between, but I still enjoy 25s and prefer them in many instances.

I am pretty old myself, ride fast some of the time, and have pretty dubious roads where I live, but I won't be riding anything bigger than 28s outside winter (and my rim brake bikes can all take 30s with WAMs approaching 32). Sure, guys hammering around crits and racing on terrible road surfaces will be disadvantaged on narrow tyres, but for me, there is nothing to be gained from riding wider, heavier tyres than that.

Industry marketing, media and even forum users create a strong FOMO effect which lures into us into thinking we need all this new stuff because it will somehow transform our enjoyment of cycling, when a lot of it actually has the opposite effect.

[JWTS]

The faster you ride the more energy your tires need to absorb over gravel, paving stones, potholes, detritus, etc.

Mind you, I'm on "team big tire" (to a point), but is this really true? I mean, I tend to train on the same roads ALL the time (variety is overrated, IMO). I notice that the washboard and beaten up farm roads are less bothersome going full gas than recovery ride pace. I mean, I don't miss the days of sprinting on 20's, but for vo2-type efforts and lower, I find the faster I'm going, the less I'm bothered by the high-frequency, lower impact chatter than you find on the road (or gravel, for that matter). It's certainly true off-road. I figured this is why Silca's calculator suggests (slightly) higher pressures for faster riders?

[TobinHatesYou]

The faster you ride the more energy your tires need to absorb over gravel, paving stones, potholes, detritus, etc.

Mind you, I'm on "team big tire" (to a point), but is this really true? I mean, I tend to train on the same roads ALL the time (variety is overrated, IMO). I notice that the washboard and beaten up farm roads are less bothersome going full gas than recovery ride pace. I mean, I don't miss the days of sprinting on 20's, but for vo2-type efforts and lower, I find the faster I'm going, the less I'm bothered by the high-frequency, lower impact chatter than you find on the road (or gravel, for that matter). It's certainly true off-road. I figured this is why Silca's calculator suggests (slightly) higher pressures for faster riders?

Run over a pothole at 10mph and then run over the same pothole at 30mph. Ride the Carrefour at 10mph and then ride it at 30mph. Silca’s calculator recommends higher pressures for faster riders for impact protection purposes.

[Mr.Gib]

The faster you ride the more energy your tires need to absorb over gravel, paving stones, potholes, detritus, etc.

Mind you, I'm on "team big tire" (to a point), but is this really true? I mean, I tend to train on the same roads ALL the time (variety is overrated, IMO). I notice that the washboard and beaten up farm roads are less bothersome going full gas than recovery ride pace. I mean, I don't miss the days of sprinting on 20's, but for vo2-type efforts and lower, I find the faster I'm going, the less I'm bothered by the high-frequency, lower impact chatter than you find on the road (or gravel, for that matter). It's certainly true off-road. I figured this is why Silca's calculator suggests (slightly) higher pressures for faster riders?

Perhaps because there is more pressure on your feet at a higher power output, the hands and ass take less of a beating. I notice the slower I ride, the more concerned I am about the padding of my saddle and bibs. When out with the local hammerfest I could probably ride a broomstick without discomfort.

I keep one really nice rim brake, mechanical shift bike in the stable. 25mm Corsa 2.0, latex inner tubes, 28mm WAM on 21mm internal at 70 - 75 psi. Love it.

[TobinHatesYou]

Perhaps because there is more pressure on your feet at a higher power output, the hands and ass take less of a beating. I notice the slower I ride, the more concerned I am about the padding of my saddle and bibs. When out with the local hammerfest I could probably ride a broomstick without discomfort.

I flat more often at higher speeds. I had to pump 25mm tubeless tires to 92/95psi just so my tires and rims would survive the pockmarked roads at the local races. There's no avoiding the kJ differences involved.

[warthog101]

Never mind that rim brake stopping power can actually be pretty decent: roads have got so bad in the last few years that you need wide rims and fat tyres for comfort. Anything narrower than 32mm just doesn't cut it, so I'm told.

I ride on 25mm, the roads don't bother me, and I'm 73 years old living in an area that gets freeze and thaw cycles that ruin concrete and asphalt roads, out in the country I ride on chip and seal, as well as gravel roads, 25mm tires don't bother me the least bit; so to say you need 32mm to ride on roads, is bit out there.

I actually agree with you. My post was an attempt at sarcasm, but that's the opinion of many on here and elsewhere. I am currently switching between 25s and 40s, and I've rode every width in between, but I still enjoy 25s and prefer them in many instances.

I am pretty old myself, ride fast some of the time, and have pretty dubious roads where I live, but I won't be riding anything bigger than 28s outside winter (and my rim brake bikes can all take 30s with WAMs approaching 32). Sure, guys hammering around crits and racing on terrible road surfaces will be disadvantaged on narrow tyres, but for me, there is nothing to be gained from riding wider, heavier tyres than that.

Industry marketing, media and even forum users create a strong FOMO effect which lures into us into thinking we need all this new stuff because it will somehow transform our enjoyment of cycling, when a lot of it actually has the opposite effect.

I am strongly the opposite. Yes older too. North of 150k km on Strava and who knows how many before I got on it. Most of those ks on 23and 25mm tyres pumped stupid hard as used to be the way
Got a gravel bike and thought hmm, wider tyres are a shed load more comfy. Got some wider carbon wheels I was going to use as gravel race wheels. I enjoyed the disc brakes so much that I repurposed the carbon wheels as road wheels with larger tyres. Bloody hell this is a heap more comfortable than the roadies as the bigger volume tyres can be run with less pressure! The brakes work predictably the same in all weather and as much as I hate rain if I get caught in it my brakes work immediately when I squeeze the lever and as I enjoy carbon wheels I don't need to hear bits of sand and grit grinding away my wheels when I do use the brakes.
Bugger it time for a new roadie. It came with 60mm deep carbon wheels but had 25s on it. Only time I've ridden GP5kSTR. They came off straight away and 28s on instead. Nicer, more grip and a bit better ride with no loss of speed.
Importantly no risk of rim strike either on our crappy roads with the bigger volume. However the wider 50mm deep WR50s I got for the gravelly are able to run bigger tyres without a light bulb profile. 30mm f + r that measure a touch under 33mm inflated to 55psi f and 60 psi rear.
It rides beautifully and has 12s di2 with a fantastic gear range and very effective brakes. I have 3 rim braked roadies. 2 of them are hanging on the wall unridden and the 3rd is a trainer drone.

[warthog101]

Perhaps because there is more pressure on your feet at a higher power output, the hands and ass take less of a beating. I notice the slower I ride, the more concerned I am about the padding of my saddle and bibs. When out with the local hammerfest I could probably ride a broomstick without discomfort.

I flat more often at higher speeds. I had to pump 25mm tubeless tires to 92/95psi just so my tires and rims would survive the pockmarked roads at the local races. There's no avoiding the kJ differences involved.

Ditto. Don't miss em