Back to mechanical shifting and rim brakes: My journey

[diskzero]

Hello fellow weenies!

(This is a long read. You have been warned!)

I have spent a lot of time in “The Rooms” dealing with my other addictions, I may as well spend some time here discussing my cycling addiction and my journey back to rim brakes and mechanical shifting.

I’ll tell some of my story to create some context around my point of view and experience and how this informs this decision. This might be interesting to some and maybe will reinforce some stereotypes. I hope that I am not a stereotype, but I probably am!

I started racing in the early 80s and my first bike was a Peugeot rescued from a pile of frames on the property of someone we called “The Bike Man”. If you dug around enough in the piles and buckets, you could find some interesting parts and that is what this bike was; a collection of interesting parts. Sachs-Huret derailleurs, whatever bottom bracket and crank was on the frame, a headset that fit, etc. The wheels were heavy, the freewheel had five gears and the tires came from the local Schwinn shop. I built and maintained the bike and the whole system was super easy to understand.

The local weekly race was a Portland International Raceway and the parking lot was somewhat of a swap meet. Over time I gradually upgraded my bike to a Colnago Mexico with Mavic rims on Dura Ace hubs (tubulars), a mixture of Shimano 600 and Dura Ace derailleurs, those cool early Die Comps aero levers, Cinelli bars and that super cool Cinelli quill stem with the tightening mechanism you didn’t want to tight too much at the risk of stripping it out.

In addition to upgrading my bike, I also started to upgrade my categories and eventually was in a position to get on teams where you got a bike (or two!). Sometimes these bikes were awesome, sometimes not so awesome. This experience did give me a good overview of whatever was state of the art in bike racing technology. One season it was Mavic components with those nice down tube retroshifters. Another season it was Campy SR with Synchro downtime shifters. Those weren’t so great. Interesting frames like the Raleigh Technium appeared, as well as Litespeed Titanium and various steel frames. Finally carbon fiber took over and I never saw another aluminum or steel frame again.

During all of this time, I could change cables, adjust gears and brakes, true wheels, eventually patch tubes when good clinchers came along and more. The start of a training ride meant that you checked the tire pressure and rolled out. If you bonked your wheel on a ride, you could open the brake caliper and ride home. It was easy to remove wheels and toss your bike into the back of cars, vans, etc. Flying with the bikes were easy; you could quickly remove the stem, pedals and wheels and toss the bike into a bag if you loved risk or a fancy case once your team had a good enough budget.

One season, the SRAM double-tap system arrived and I really loved it. My beautiful hidden cables were back after some seasons on Shimano and the shifting was effortless and really good. Double-tap was around for a few seasons and then it was back to Shimano with DI2. I wasn’t stoked about having to charge a battery to ride, but I already had a batteries in the SRM Power meter and head unit and this was the bike I was given. If it was my own bike, I would have stuck with mechanical double-tap, but DI2 performed well, even thought it was a bit ugly with a junction box strapped to the bottom of the stem.

My competitive racing days eventually came to an end, and I ended up with my final team bike as “my” bike. It was a nice one; Specialized S-Works SL2 carbon module with Dura Ace DI2, SRM power meter custom attached to the S-Work carbon crank arm, Dura Ace wheels and Specialized bars and stem. This is the bike that I kept riding and occasionally racing when I felt like being punished.
Life, career, kids and more slowed the riding down and the bike was only an occasional friend. When I finally got back into training and riding fast, the world had changed. Rim brakes were gone, mechanical shifters were gone, 25mm tires were considered skinny and exposed cables were also going out of style. Bikes also were really expensive! I was used to the top of the line equipment being expensive, but it seems the days of going into a bike shop and getting out of the store for less than three thousand for a race bike were over.

I decided to support my local bike shop and decide to switch brands by getting a Cannondale SuperSix Evo. I didn’t buy into the most expensive configuration, but ended up with SRAM Force and Cannondale’s own tubeless wheels. I now had a bike with disc brakes, two rechargeable batteries and some sort of other electronic Cannondale widget that I ignored. The test rides were ok, but I wasn’t filled with the same type of excitement that I used to feel with a new bike. I just attributed this to dealing with a new brand, new technology and wider tires running at low pressure.

After logging a few hundred miles, I really began to dislike the bike. It felt like I was piloting a dried-out piece of wood down the road. Maybe it was the Cannondale wheels? I decided to throw money at the problem at got a pair of Enve SES 4.2 wheels. This helped, but the bike still felt dead. Also, the disc brakes began making tinging noises when the wheel rotated and it was driving me crazy! I could certainly take the bike to the shop and have them fix it, but I had always worked on my bikes and really enjoyed. I had years of accumulated Park and Campagnolo tools, but what I didn’t have was a DOT 3 disc brake bleeding system, so I got one. After filling syringes with corrosive DOT 3 fluid, attaching them to various ports under the break hoods and calipers, inserting plastic wedges into calipers and pushing and pulling syringes, I got the brakes bled. After cleaning up with isopropyl alcohol, I put the wheels back in place and they both rubbed. Ah right, I need to loosen the two bolts holding the caliper to the frame, pull the brake lever and then tighten the bolts. No more tinging! For about two weeks. Sigh.

Another thing that confused me was the weight of the bike. It was heavy! Even with my fancy Enve wheels it was over 8kg. The problem must be the SRAM Force groups, the amazingly complicated Cannondale seat post with the dual wedges and the interesting two part aero bar and stem system. I didn’t like the bike anyway, so I decided to throw more money at the problem.

I got a new frame, a Chapter2 Toa, complete Dura Ace 9200 group along with the Enve wheels. This frame came with an integrated cockpit it was a real pain to build. Once the build was done, the hydraulic cables were rattling in the frame, so I had to take it all apart and put in some additional weight in the form of foam tubing that slid over the hydraulic lines. At least
Shimano uses mineral oil and won’t strip the paint or finish off of the bike. What was the weight of this new bike? Still over 8kg!. Ugh.

In order to set up the new DI2 components, I had to create an account with Shimano so I could use the E-Tube app. Lame. It is also seemed like this generation of DI2 took longer to wake up, up to two seconds. Sometimes one of the levers wouldn’t activate the derailleurs. The brakes would sometimes ting and squeal. The bike felt good, but it just didn’t bring joy and I felt like I was riding a ticking time bomb of circuit boards, servos, actuators, hydraulic seals and radios. I just knew something was going to fail.

There was something else about these new bikes; my power numbers were good but I was going slower. I have been riding with power data since the early nineties and have a ton of data about routes and climbs I have done. Yes, I was no longer a competitive racer and number decline, but I still had decent FTP, VO2 and heart rate values. What was going on? Were the frame, wheels and extra weight eating watts? I say yes.
Work required my to travel and I had a trip coming up that would take me to corporate headquarters for the summer. How was I going to travel with this bike? The thought of dealing with the integrated cockpit filled me with dread. I decided to throw in the towel and looked on Craigslist for a simple bike. I found a 2018 Specialized Allez NSW with SRAM Double tap. It had a Force front derailleur, a Red rear derailleur, Red brakes, Rotor 3D+ cranks and some Amazon Chinese carbon clincher. The fork looked like a carbon Tarmac fork and the seat post was a carbon post from a Venge. The bar and stem were entry level Specialized aluminum and the saddle was an entry level Fizik. I put on some pedals and weight it: 7.4kg. All of this for $1100.

Was this bike going to suck? Were the wheels going to explode? Would mechanical brakes and shifters be a complete misery? What about wet roads? So many questions. Here is my answer; the bike was a blast to ride. The SRAM 10 shifting was clean and crisp. The brakes worked well. The Chinese carbon wheels stayed true and I could run 30mm tires on the Allez frame. Whatever Specialized did with this aluminum frame was great. It felt better than either the Cannondale or the Chapter2. I could ride it by just checking the tire pressure. If needed, I could adjust the brakes and derailleur. (Three months in Boston and I never had to do either.) I could remove the stem and wheels and put this bike in a case and check it on the plane.

What about the brakes? What about the wet? I rode this bike in Boston on poor roads, in the rain, down hills and always was able to lock up the brakes if I needed. Even in the pouring rain, the brakes would engage after a few spins of the wheels and I could lock the wheels. Maybe the brake tracks on the wheels are going to fail? Maybe. But you can buy these wheels on Amazon for $300. For the price of the Enve wheels ($2850), I could replace the wheels every year for almost a decade.

What was really interesting were the power numbers. Same power, faster times. Is this a placebo affect? I don’t think so. I have years of power numbers on the same routes.

What is the downside for me? I really miss the 12 speed cassettes. Fortunately, Ratio Technology makes a part that is simple to install that converts SRAM 20 or 22 to 24. It works great! You can run either Shimano cassette/chain or SRAM cassette/chain. I can still buy new carbon and aluminum Chinese wheels or stay domestic with Boyd wheels. For me, I have a hard time seeing a downside.

I feel like the entire road cycling industry has gone off the rails with a fixation on high end bikes with electronic components, hydraulic brakes and heavy wheels and frames. They have to make the frames and wheels heavier in some areas to support the stress of the disk brakes, but then they remove weight we need by giving us hookless wheels. Even if you homogenize your product line, I just can’t see how the expense and complexity of hydraulic brakes and electronic shifter can ever approach the cost of mechanical parts.

This has been my journey and I have found joy in riding again. If I ever get desperate, I can easily know another pound off of the bike just by swapping the frame for a rim brake Specialized SL6. But I love the Allez! It has personality and is a blast to ride. It stands out in a pack of generic-looking $14000 super bikes on the Saturday morning hammer fest. Maybe I will come back to disc brakes and electronic shifting in the future, but I doubt it.

[gwhit]

Amen

[raisinberry777]

There's some great buys available second hand for rim brakes. Whether you side with rim brakes or disc brakes, I think there's never really been a better time for the amount of choice we have available to us.

[justinfoxphotos]

Thanks for writing all that so I don't have to.

49, and never been a fan of carbon on bikes (way too fragile, especially on mountain bikes). When I left the bicycle industry in 2010 there was a big push for carbon, just getting back on the bike this year and all I see is carbon.

I only just bought an new road bike to replace my 80's steel road bike (Columbus tubing, Campagnolo, downtube shifters, beautiful!). I wanted to avoid carbon, thought about steel, but then thought I'd at least try something more modern so I bought an aluminium Allez Sprint. I specifically opted for mechanical Shimano 105 too, but at some point I decided to upgrade to SRAM RED E1, and you know what... I love it!

I've just very recently bought an S-WORKS SL6 rim brake. It's been an absolute pleasure to work on (except clamping down on a carbon seatpost in the bike stand). It's going to end up MUCH lighter than the Allez, but it just feels so fragile to the touch (feels like you can crush the top tube with your bare hands), and I'm overly careful with it (not so with the Allez which I lterally toss into the boot of my car 3 x a week to do laps around the local park).

I think a lot of the complexity with road bikes comes from mountain bike tech. Tubeless, thru-axles, hydraulic brakes, threadless headsets and don't even get me started on sloping top tubes...

It's not just bikes though, same thing with cars. The early DSG cars were terrible, but they're pretty good now. Having said that I MUCH prefer driving a manual (especially on a race track) over an automatic.

[Mr.Gib]

Hmm, Chapter2 Toa with DA measured at 7.41kg. Not sure how you managed over 8kg. https://road.cc/content/review/chapter2 ... set-296773

Perhaps your expectations are misaligned with the latest tech. It's not about feel, it's about speed. Sometimes you get both, but there is no denying the increased speed of the best aero offerings. Proper deep wheels, fast tires, and a good aero frame and bars, and you can fly. Of course it will never feel as lively as a 6kg climbing bike out of the saddle, but the lighter examples are no too bad. As for your grief over the challenges of the building a modern bike, and the service requirements of hydraulic brakes, it doesn't sound like building current bikes is your thing. Up your game or leave it to the pros.

The only sympathy I'll offer is over defective Shimano calipers. A surprising number have one side that does not retract properly. It can drive you nuts unless you know to get in there and test the ease of retraction while exercising the pistons. Again this is a skill that you need to know. At least Shimano will replace them no questions asked ( a good percentage also leak, but that's another issue). I won't dispute that its ridiculous that we end consumers need to know this stuff. OTOH, you can have my Di2 when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

[warthog101]

I have gone the other way and no regrets.
150K km on Strava on rim brakes and 10 and 11s mechanical.
Got a gravel bike to ride new routes and avoid our dangerously incompetent, and in some cases, aggressive drivers.
It came with GRX 11s and disc brakes. Really enjoyed the disc brakes. Reliable consistent braking in all weathers and all conditions.
Got another set of wheels and started riding it on the road too.
Bugger it, got a 12s di2 disc braked roadie. Riding it with my wider hookless, tubeless wheels I bought for the gravelly.
No grinding the carbon rims when I brake, it brakes consistently and is just as fast but better grip and comfort, largely due to the wider tyres I expect. It has taught me tyres don't need to be rock hard if they are wider to be fast. The shifting is sublime, particularly the chainrings at the front. Using the small ring more often and a bigger range of gears as a result.
The rim brake bikes are still there. One is a trainer drone and the other two hang on the wall gathering dust.
Perhaps I'll go back to them occasionally. Pretty sure I've moved on though

[BdaGhisallo]

I am a bit of a retrogrouch in as far as disc brakes go. I don't have them on any bike and I don't see myself ever adapting them. They just seem to be to be too much of a hassle - the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Like the OP, I have no issue locking up my carbon rim brake wheels in the wet. And dry braking is as good as I'd ever need it to be.

I'm not with him on the mechanical shifting, though. I think the sweetspot in development for me is DI2 12 speed with rim brakes. I have been on DI2 since 2009 and I couldn't ever see myself going back to mechanical shifting. DI2 is just so good. It's still readily available and I think it affords the best of both worlds.

[mike]

long live the rim brake. also love downtube shifters and tubular rim brake wheels. i enjoy riding my 1980s c record equipped bike. it is a blast to ride even though many pounds heavier than my carbon bike

[rollinslow]

I definitely appreciate the mech rim brake bike. I would much rather have that compared to a low-end electronic/disc bike. However, the SL8 specifically has taken the modern aero/disc frame so far forward that I actually don't feel as strongly about the rim brake as I used to. Wireless shifting also simplified the whole thing so much as well that I prefer it. Campagnolo disc brakes are so good that I don't have complaints and they were the easiest to setup compar to Shimano and SRAM.

[alexanderp1991]

As much as I wanted to like my rim brake bike my modern aero bike is so much faster.
I had a caad12, aero bars, tririg brakes, carbon wheels etc and going to my new bike my time trial times got so much faster.
I have 2 years of racing data for each bike and skin suit and helmet stayed the same. Position is nigh on identical, I spent a long time getting it the same and I have fancy bike fitter jig tools to match it.
The bigger tyres are also comfy as well and UK roads are awful.


It doesn't feel as urgent though and weighs more so I get what you are saying. I also couldn't afford to replace it as the prices have gone mental (I got mine on a big sale due to overstock).

[Juanmoretime]

Love both. Faster on my non aero Litespped T3 disc than my Blue AC1 or my Specialized Tarmac SL2 with Rival drive train, Red brakes. All my roadies are special as my gravel, fat and mtb are. I don't race anymore nor do I follow what the pro's do and or ride. At my age the joy of cycling comes from cycling and nothing else. I do like to ride fast and am not as fast as I used to be, so what.

[diskzero]

Hmm, Chapter2 Toa with DA measured at 7.41kg. Not sure how you managed over 8kg. https://road.cc/content/review/chapter2 ... set-296773

I was able to get the weight down, but at great expense.

As for your grief over the challenges of the building a modern bike, and the service requirements of hydraulic brakes, it doesn't sound like building current bikes is your thing. Up your game or leave it to the pros.

You are right. I hit my cost/benefit limit. Working on a bike used to require the skill needed to brush your teeth, but setting up and maintaining disc brake feels more like dentistry.

[diskzero]

No grinding the carbon rims when I brake, it brakes consistently and is just as fast but better grip and comfort, largely due to the wider tyres I expect. It has taught me tyres don't need to be rock hard if they are wider to be fast. The shifting is sublime, particularly the chainrings at the front. Using the small ring more often and a bigger range of gears as a result.

The Chinese wheels I was using, and the newer Boyd Cycling wheels, allow me to run 30mm tubeless. The last rim brake generation of the Specialized Allez and the SL6 both have the frame clearance, so I am able to keep that awesome part of the experience.

Using the Ratio Technology part in the SRAM levers, I am using a SRAM Red WiFli rear derailleur with a Shimano 9200 crank, Shimano chain and a Shimano 12-speed cassette. The shifting smoothness is just like you would feel with DI2. It isn't as fast, as there is some latency as my fingers are the actuator. But then again, there is no battery or switches in my shifter lever, no battery in my seatpost, no servos in my derailleurs, no transmitters and receivers and no electrical cables.

I agree a modern DI2 setup is almost magical. The moment you make contact with the switch, the shift is complete, smoothly and silently.

[Butcher]

I couple weeks ago, I just purchased a S-Works Tarmac SL6, full Campagnolo SR12, and Bora 45 WTO wheels. Great find and price. I was not looking for a bike but for $3200, I had to buy it.

My current ride is a S-Works Tarmac SL3 with EPS12. Without a doubt, I like the electric shifting and can't wait until I swap it over. My first ride with the SL6 was kind of weird. I have had EPS11/12 for over 10 years and I totally forgot how it was to shift mechanically.

I don't live an an area or have the bike handling skills where disc brakes would help me. I suspect this SL6 will be my last bike and as soon as I get the EPS12 installed, it will be my best bike.

I do have my '77 custom built Tom Ritchey built frame with Campagnolo SR hanging in the basement, ready to ride 24/7.

[warthog101]

How do you guys go with carbon wheels and wet braking though?
I have 3 sets of rim brake carbon wheels. Yes they stop when it is wet. Is it as predictable and immediately effective when the lever is squeezed in the wet?
Way more ks on rim brake and I now avoid the rain if I can, but pretty quickly evident disc works much better.

Yes more work setting them up and yes a little heavier so no, not all positive.