Can someone describe the "modern" road bike fit?

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

apr46
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

RoadDonk82 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2024 4:53 pm
For those who use forward saddle/long stem fit: are you comfortable on descents? I find downhill corners/switchbacks uncomfortable when I am forward on the bike. It's much easier for me with saddle in more traditional position. Thoughts?
Weight balance is going to be bike model and size specific. Some brands are all over the place with regards to weight balance and at each size. Trend wise, people on larger bikes will probably not find it a problem and people on smaller bikes will more often. By virtue of slacker had angles and high offset forks bikes like the SS evo will be better than something like the tarmac.

Personally not a problem on my currrent road bike since it was designed to with this position in mind. It is a huge problem on my old gravel bike.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



AJS914
Posts: 5498
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

One thing I've been noticing about Pogacar recently is that his arms are sometimes almost straight up and down with very little reach.

Here he is in the drops. If he were on the hoods or tops of the bars he'd be sitting very upright.

Image

Image

apr46
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

AJS914 wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2024 3:26 am
One thing I've been noticing about Pogacar recently is that his arms are sometimes almost straight up and down with very little reach.

Here he is in the drops. If he were on the hoods or tops of the bars he'd be sitting very upright.
First photo is on the old bike with the campagnolo stuff, so it must be at least from 2022, if not older. This is before the new fit with the Enve bars.

Here is a photo from the Giro of him with his hands in a similar position courtesy of road.cc
Image

And from Escape Collective. He is still using a setback seatpost at this point. I think this was from Strade Bianche.
Image

Others like Remco and Roglic make this fit even more obvious.

Hexsense
Posts: 3361
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Q: isn't cleats as far back on the shoes as it go also part of this fit?

hannawald
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

I guess we need to distinguish road bike fit and race bike fit:) Regarding Pogacar I have read he changes the fit according to the profile of the stage. On a hilly route he angles the saddle down etc. So he obviously knows his body very well, he weights nothing, don´t care about body mass and hand pressure/neck numbness... hard to copy:) Cannondale, Specialized, Trek know their 15000USD bikes won´t be bought by fit pro racers so they supply them with 5cm of spacers and wide handlebars. Although with handlebars I believe even pure amateurs will benefit from slightly narrower ones:)

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13058
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

hannawald wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2024 9:10 am
I guess we need to distinguish road bike fit and race bike fit:) Regarding Pogacar I have read he changes the fit according to the profile of the stage. On a hilly route he angles the saddle down etc. So he obviously knows his body very well, he weights nothing, don´t care about body mass and hand pressure/neck numbness... hard to copy:) Cannondale, Specialized, Trek know their 15000USD bikes won´t be bought by fit pro racers so they supply them with 5cm of spacers and wide handlebars. Although with handlebars I believe even pure amateurs will benefit from slightly narrower ones:)

That was Peak Torque nonsense where he didn't realize he was looking at photos of Pogacar from two different seasons.

apr46
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

Hexsense wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2024 4:11 am
Q: isn't cleats as far back on the shoes as it go also part of this fit?
No. I dont think so. These trends are independent of cleat position changes; though obviously those changes will also have an effect here. The point of these positions is to use a slightly shorter crank to allow the rider to sit lower on the bike. If you are slamming your cleats back you have effectively shortened your leg--so you could probably go even shorter and therefore even lower in terms of crank length by combining both things. At the risk of using pros as a model, as far as I can tell, we dont see pros doing this.

I would also hesitate to think of any cleat position rule as shoe dependent, after all we all fit differently in different shoes. There is also so much debate on cleat position that I am not sure much of it really takes into account a full view of the tradeoffs. For example choosing to minimize the role of the calves while moving the cleat back increases the strain placed on the knees as you are now quad / hamstring dominant. If you have issues with injuries on that part of the body or just creaky knees this is a bad idea.

There is a ton of noise about how top triathletes run a midfoot cleat position on their tri bikes and how that would benefit other disciplines, but if you look at how those same riders place their cleats when gravel racing you will see that they tend to be in a more or less traditional position. My opinion? Find a cleat position that works for you that is similar to the way you run and do other things. It's illogical to argue that you should have a distinctly different load path as a cyclist vs. doing a endurance run unless you plan on running after you bike or you cant run.

AJS914
Posts: 5498
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Found this picture of Thomas. Of course, I'm just an amateur punter, and he's won the Tour but his fit looks horrible. He always sitting on the tip of the saddle, and it even appears like he's got too much reach.

This seems to be modern pro bike fit to the max.

I wonder if he seems to crash so much because of a forward weight bias.

Image

Even on a trainer:

Image

toxin
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:56 pm

by toxin

He just hasnt gotten a proper fit cause he just doesn't feel any issues, you could change something on his bike a bit and it doesn't bother him. That's probably why he's never seen a reason to make any changes.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13058
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

^ G has minimal anterior pelvic rotation and for some reason likes to sit on the nose of his saddle. His head occupies a pretty standard x,y

He doesn’t have a progressive fit.

dsveddy
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:56 pm

by dsveddy

Personally I think the guys pushing the envelope of modern fit (at least as far as hand position goes) is TOOT Racing. I kind of see their X23 track bike as their manifesto on bike fit, it's designed to be ridden in the drops 100% of the time but achieves an "aero hoods" position through tons of effective stack. The net result is basically zero drop from seat to hands.

You can see this philosphy materialize on the road side with their Ashaa bars--most people focus on the hillariously narrow width, but the other thing that's baked in is 35mm of rise and 60mm of extra reach compared to an Enve bar. Personally I think this all makes sense: get the hands up high to make it easy to flatten the forearms get the hands forward to get some angle on the upper arms so their cross-sectional profile meeting the wind is more oval than cylindrical. And of course that extra reach helps make the narrow hand position more effective by requiring the rider to scrunch the shoulders up a bit towards their ears, narrowing the frontal area of the shoulders, but also helping open up the torso so you can breathe.

toxin
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:56 pm

by toxin

You were going pretty well until this part
helping open up the torso so you can breathe.
This just is not a thing because it isn't a problem. If it is a problem you're doing something else horrifically wrong, like that one guy who looks like a shrimp on the bike.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13058
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

dsveddy wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2024 10:16 pm
Personally I think the guys pushing the envelope of modern fit (at least as far as hand position goes) is TOOT Racing. I kind of see their X23 track bike as their manifesto on bike fit, it's designed to be ridden in the drops 100% of the time but achieves an "aero hoods" position through tons of effective stack. The net result is basically zero drop from seat to hands.

You can see this philosphy materialize on the road side with their Ashaa bars--most people focus on the hillariously narrow width, but the other thing that's baked in is 35mm of rise and 60mm of extra reach compared to an Enve bar. Personally I think this all makes sense: get the hands up high to make it easy to flatten the forearms get the hands forward to get some angle on the upper arms so their cross-sectional profile meeting the wind is more oval than cylindrical. And of course that extra reach helps make the narrow hand position more effective by requiring the rider to scrunch the shoulders up a bit towards their ears, narrowing the frontal area of the shoulders, but also helping open up the torso so you can breathe.

We draw air into our lungs by pushing our diaphragms down, not puffing out our chests like frigate birds courting potential mates. Ever notice how some pros look like they have pot bellies on the bike, those are the best “belly breathers.” Alex Dowsett is a prime example.

Getting the arms up isn’t about keeping the forearms flat either. It’s the opposite. They are trying to mimic the modern TT hand position with the hands touching the face while looking ahead. Your forearms deflect the air around the cavity created by your chest, upper arms, groin, legs…

AJS914
Posts: 5498
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Are those bars legal anywhere besides fixie racing?

Image

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13058
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

AJS914 wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:47 pm
Are those bars legal anywhere besides fixie racing?

Image

The TooT Ashaa RR steel, titanium, carbon bars are currently UCI road legal. The steel or titanium ones are 35cm o-o at the drops and ~24cm c-c at the hoods. The carbon version is 37cm at the drops and 26cm at the hoods. Everything fits inside the bounding boxes.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply