New Wilier “Verticale” lightweight bike. Aethos competitor?

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carbocation
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:40 pm

by carbocation

What's the deal with the axle change size up front? Why in the world would you do this? Better yet - why on this bike?

by Weenie


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Yoln
Posts: 988
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

ichobi wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:21 pm
The appeal of the aethos is not just because it’s light though. It’s mostly the non racing oldschool aesthetic and vibe. There are many light racing bike, the Tcr for one, the O2 vam for two. They arent as light as the aethos of course but light enough for you to climb any and all mountains when kit right. Having said that they are totally a different vibe of bike.

People who buy aethos i dont think they buy it because it’s light or that weight is the main factor. It’s the vibe. So this Wilier when it’s out won’t be in the same market.

And if you are in for the classic look it’s a hard to beat bike because very light traditional looking (almost like steel bike) is non existent. The aethos owns that market no matter how small it is. Specialized is big enough to have the aethos line running. Bikes like the Shiv (uci tt bikes) are even more niche and most brands still produce them (out of necessity as the pros need them). They can run on longer update cycle so they can milk out that mold cost a bit longer than your typical mass market roadbikes.
Totally agree. I would also add that the fact that it's a premium yet classic looking is part of the deal. It appeals to people who want to get a really nice bike, spend a good chinch of money on it, but are not happy with either the steel/titanium niche premium brands with classic looks, nor the carbon bikes with modern looks. Aethos is actually the only premium carbon frame with a classic look
Litespeed Gravel Ultimate : https://tinyurl.com/zvxxy8zk
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : https://tinyurl.com/29vs8vre
#RETIRED# Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬:https://tinyurl.com/bdmb5y24

RDY
Posts: 2583
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

carbocation wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:50 pm
What's the deal with the axle change size up front? Why in the world would you do this? Better yet - why on this bike?
Has to be an error. There's no way they'd do 100x10 ... unless they want to sell zero bikes - like the new TT.

cheapvega
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

carbocation wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:41 pm
cheapvega wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:01 pm
It makes me sad that road bikes seem to be coalescing around the "one bike to rule them all" model. From a business POV I get it and I feel like gravel has taken up a lot of the endurance market. But I don't care about UCI regs or whatever. I'd love to see frames designed more for the road than getting 0.1 more W at 45kph within UCI boundaries.
I agree and I love the Aethos. But I will admit that it screws up the whole order of the system. With something like Aethos, the pros aren't riding it very often, so it's not a great marketing opportunity. You're paying a bunch of money to supply/sponsor a pro team and they're not riding that frame. Plus, let's say it costs the same or more to produce an Aethos than SL7 (I don't know the actual development costs for either) - then you've got a frameset that's not the "top tier pro" frame that's more expensive to develop/produce and is likely selling lower volumes.

Spec is a good example. In my opinion, lately they make a crazy version of something (Venge for Aero, Aethos for weight) with a bunch of compromises. Then they use those lessons, refine the concept, and apply it to their do-it-all / Tarmac.
Maybe I am just stuck in the WW bubble, but the Aethos def seemed to have a bit of a cult following, especially when it came out. The fact that it got any traction at all w/no pro credibility speaks to the market potential outside that space. A big brand weight weenie frame seems like it should do well. If anything the lack of updates and special colors is what kind of did it in. If they kept the Aethos fresh like the Allez for example I think there would be a lot more interest. And if Specialized could provide an update with a weight that starts with 5 I think people would go nuts.

TwiggyForest
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:06 am

by TwiggyForest

The new Wilier looks fantastic.

The Aethos really needs a more endurance bike fit to suit it's market. Everyone I have seen here has had a chimney of spacers.

RoadDonk82
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:43 pm

by RoadDonk82

The Aethos really needs a more endurance bike fit to suit it's market. Everyone I have seen here has had a chimney of spacers.
Which is a godsend for shorter people or people with short legs. I have -17 degree slammed stem on 52 (I should be on 54 according to Specialized) and I only get 6-6.5cm saddle to bar drop. Bikes in smaller sizes are too high in general. Maybe that's the reason Canyon tried making 650b happen on smaller sizes (their 650b gravel bikes were the about the only ones with reaonably low stack in smaller sizes). If we can't have that I am happy we at least have "racing" geometry.

I don't get the higher stack argument. You can always invert a stem and gain from 4 to 6cm (in comparison to -17 one) but you can't get it lower.
Last edited by RoadDonk82 on Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13029
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

TwiggyForest wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:53 am
The new Wilier looks fantastic.

The Aethos really needs a more endurance bike fit to suit it's market. Everyone I have seen here has had a chimney of spacers.

Or we can just accept the fact that spacers exist and that modern carbon steerers can take at least 5.5cm worth as is the case with something like the last gen SuperSix. If we leave race bikes long and low, practically everyone can ride them. Besides, the "endurance" Aethos already exists. It's called the Crux.

A 56cm Aethos has 395mm reach and 565mm stack. With +5cm in spacers, it becomes 381mm reach and 613mm stack. A 56cm Roubaix = 389/605. If you need even more stack, use a stem with a positive rise and/or bars with rise.

patchandscruff
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:58 am

by patchandscruff

According to RDY, Wilier is a brand that only grandpas buy. So if you want to look cool and 'young', buy something else.

usr
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

Yoln wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:11 pm
Totally agree. I would also add that the fact that it's a premium yet classic looking is part of the deal. It appeals to people who want to get a really nice bike, spend a good chinch of money on it, but are not happy with either the steel/titanium niche premium brands with classic looks, nor the carbon bikes with modern looks. Aethos is actually the only premium carbon frame with a classic look
People who want to see their bike age in dignity, perhaps even with a new seatpost at some point in the future.

Philbar72
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:47 am

by Philbar72

patchandscruff wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:40 am
According to RDY, Wilier is a brand that only grandpas buy. So if you want to look cool and 'young', buy something else.
a lot of us older folk have them. i hate my cento 10 air. its going in the bin... just need to replace it woth something more modern.

Yoln
Posts: 988
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

Litespeed Gravel Ultimate : https://tinyurl.com/zvxxy8zk
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : https://tinyurl.com/29vs8vre
#RETIRED# Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬:https://tinyurl.com/bdmb5y24

Kushboi
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 4:52 pm

by Kushboi

TwiggyForest wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:53 am
The new Wilier looks fantastic.

The Aethos really needs a more endurance bike fit to suit it's market. Everyone I have seen here has had a chimney of spacers.
Amen! I recently purchased an Aethos expert for a great deal and loved every aspect (non-integrated, lightweight, 2 piece bar/stem, threaded BB). Everything except that low, agressive stack. I know not everyone feels the same, but I just don't feel right using 35mm+ of spacers. Since owning one, now i actually do see a fair amount out and about (bay area), and every single one has a chimney.

Returned it after a week, and it made me appreciate my Caledonia waay more. (not sure why i felt tempted to roam from the 'donia anyways, but this buyers market and 30%+ deals on bikes just about everywhere can get a man excited).

I would line up to buy an sub-UCI weight endurance bike off the assmebly line with no propitary stuff. Aethos was supposed to be the everyman's bike, and now everyman is using 40mm of spacers.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13029
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Kushboi wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:50 pm

Amen! I recently purchased an Aethos expert for a great deal and loved every aspect (non-integrated, lightweight, 2 piece bar/stem, threaded BB). Everything except that low, agressive stack. I know not everyone feels the same, but I just don't feel right using 35mm+ of spacers. Since owning one, now i actually do see a fair amount out and about (bay area), and every single one has a chimney.

Returned it after a week, and it made me appreciate my Caledonia waay more. (not sure why i felt tempted to roam from the 'donia anyways, but this buyers market and 30%+ deals on bikes just about everywhere can get a man excited).

I would line up to buy an sub-UCI weight endurance bike off the assmebly line with no propitary stuff. Aethos was supposed to be the everyman's bike, and now everyman is using 40mm of spacers.

I'm in the Bay Area and most Aethoses I see do not have many spacers. Also if you want an endurance Aethos. it. already. exists. It's called the Crux. For example the 52cm Crux has 20mm more stack than the 52cm Aethos.

I'm convinced brands could add 40mm in stack to every frame and people would still complain. There's nothing wrong with spacers, positive rise stems and positive rise bars, but there's everything wrong with one group of riders clamoring for bikes that can't be adapted to more aggressive fits.

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CJosephB
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:48 pm

by CJosephB

TwiggyForest wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:53 am
The new Wilier looks fantastic.

The Aethos really needs a more endurance bike fit to suit it's market. Everyone I have seen here has had a chimney of spacers.
IMO, almost everything the same wheelbase, etc... except a slightly higher stack height. ie on a 58 size frame, instead of 591 go to 610. I love the nimbleness and quick handling of the Aethos.

by Weenie


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RoadDonk82
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:43 pm

by RoadDonk82

There's nothing wrong with spacers, positive rise stems and positive rise bars, but there's everything wrong with one group of riders clamoring for bikes that can't be adapted to more aggressive fits.
You don't even need spacers. Going from default (for Aethos) -6 degree stem to +12 one results in around 30mm height difference (for 100mm stem).
People who want to ride recreational geo with a slammed stem can still do that.

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