Tacx motion plates, or rollers?

[robeambro]

Hi all,

after 4.5 years of service I am looking to replace my Kickr Core as it's (literally) getting rusty. I use it extensively but never for intervals (I use Zwift races as a way to do high intensity - fully aware that it's not quite as good).

One of my gripes with the Kickr is that I am uncomfortable everywhere, knees, bum, neck, hands - and it's not the bike fit, but the stationary nature of the trainer. I have tried with many "soft" solutions, such as using a thick mat, and even putting a little bit of extra foam under the feet of the trainer, to no avail. I've seen plenty of DIY hacks to fix the problem, from tennis balls to hedgehog balance balls, but frankly none of them convince me for different reasons (e.g. I wouldn't feel safe sprinting). I identified two possible solutions that could work for me:

- getting a Tacx Neo (one of the many versions - definitely not the 3T as it's way out of budget) and pair it with the Tacx motion plates. Seemingly no downsides with this setup, especially if I can buy a used unit and bring the cost down. Though, I really don't know whether the plates are worth their price tag (and it's a hefty one).

- getting a set of dumb rollers and use them with my Rally PM. This is by far the cheaper option and I would most likely like the ride feel, but I'm not entirely sure I'd ever do Zwift races again if on this setup, which is a downside for me (as mentioned above I am fairly allergic to doing intervals indoors, and races help me with that). I have ruled out expensive rollers (e.g. inside ride e-motion) as they're out of budget, and smart rollers (e.g. Elite Nero, Wahoo Kickr Rollr) for other reasons.

Can anybody who's used the tacx motion plates comment on them, or give their experience with similar issues? When recommending solutions please do keep in mind that I am due buying a new trainer of some sorts *anyway*.

[mikehhhhhhh]

I really like my Tacx motion plates.

I found them complementary rather than revolutionary but they have genuinely improved comfort for longer trainer sessions. I'm happy up to 2 hours endurance.

Not sure I'd use them for racing though, they do sap
A bit of power, although in turn promote good smooth pedalling technique to avoid the most of it.

But they move a lot sprinting out the saddle.

Again, you can counter this with good technique, but can you apply that under the pressure and fatigue of a race?

That said, if this is the compromise that keeps you racing, even at a minor performance penalty, it's worth it.

The other thing worth noting is the 2T tends to under read a bit. I think this is why most keen racers opt for a Kickr.

Kickr move might be a better solution, being lockable and more accurate.

[eucalyptus]

I use Tacx Neo 2T with motion plates, so basically the same as the new 3M ?

Its wonderful. Its precise, no calibrating, it just works and it feels great with motion plates.

The entire unit can swing pretty heavily right and left, just like your real bike on the bike. So it is not at all stationary like Wahoo who is stiff as a stick.
The motion plates adds a very natural feel swinging back and forth, just every so slightly. You will never think about any of this while on the bike because it all creates a very natural feeling like riding outdoor except for the fact I can sit straight up and not hold the handlebar if I want too.... like the Pro's on the finish line. So thats why I never think of the features explictly, it creates a great experience and thats just it.

I could 100% never ride without this setup knowing how good it is. The Tacx Neo unit itself is far better than Wahoo anything else only due to the fact that it tilt/swing side to side. The motion plates just as good, but I can understand if some professional who only uses Zwift to 15 second sprints maybe dont like the motion plates because they like the more stationary feeling.

[alanyu]

I bought the NEO 2T bundle at a huge discount at the day 3M released. I like the motion plate, which indeed produces more comfort for long indoor section, but I also need 25-30% longer warm up with the plate.

[ridenfish39]

If youlike rollers I highly recommend a set of EMotion. You can find them used really cheap now, I got mine for 250 a while back.
I go back and forth from a Kicker and the rollers when I use Zwift.

[usr]

You are right, chances are you would never engage in anything like Zwift races on rollers. Some people do (I think?) but I'd consider it safe to assume that those are wild outliers in terms of "rollers talent". Back in my rollers days I noticed trouble balancing even when just watching Netflix, e.g. when Walter White had a bit of a car chase scene in his funny Heisenbergmobile. I suspect that a somewhat immersive cycling sim like Zwift would throw me off balance through reactions to the screen road much harder, and I wasn't even terribly bad at rollers (occasional no hands and all that).

But if you have the space and noise isn't an issue (rollers are orders of magnitude louder than all modern direct drives), go for it anyways! Rollers are awesome, keep the Kickr for Zwift. Rollers just put you in a different load regime than a smart turbo, they complement each other. There's no "all out to lights out" as in a Zwift race and there's no idly pedaling for hours, both because so much attention is required to stay in lane. But they are almost like magic for load points around the "tempo" range, because going faster makes it easier to balance. You don't have to force yourself to wattage, you actually want it, because there is a physical reward that not only the brain understands, it's the also the the body that understands, as in the parts of the brain that work without thinking.

For the direct drive, I'm very happy with a rocker plate that has moderate back-and-forth, the kind of rocker plate where the hinges are replaced with fixed, tall rubber shock absorber blocks that also allow some forward movement (and lateral, which does not to any harm). If you have too much forward movement, there's a risk of big resonance swings building up and that's super annoying. I've seen that in many videos intended to advertise motion plates with travel: not one oscillation per single pedal stroke (one left, one right) but one large oscillation per complete crank rotation (something like forward on left stroke, backward on right stroke). You don't want that, it does no good. At the end of my rollers days, I was on an Elite E-Motion with generous forward travel and it suffered from the same problem. Bearable, but noticeably too much.

[kervelo]

I like my motion plates and would not ride without them any more. Now that the motion plates come bundled with the 2T it is also a great deal compared to the more expensive 3M.

[Hexsense]

My vote would be another Kickr Core
But pair with with
Insideride E-flex plus.
http://www.insideride.com/buy/eflex-plus
Yes, it's expensive. But it allow the most natural motion you can get from a wheels-off stationary trainer.
Since I also have Tacx Neo 2T. I can say it out. Insideride E-flex + Kickr Core is better than Tacx Neo with motion plate.

[milanv]

Another vote for Tacx Neo with motion plates, the best accessory for trainer.

[robeambro]

Thanks all - looks like the motion plates are pretty overwhelmingly liked. The E-flex plus is an interesting curve-ball to consider, and it does seem to do a great job - but it's already expensive as it is, then once you'd factor in shipping costs to UK and duties it would really not make financial sense, especially as it's not a piece of kit I would be able to either resell easily in the future or use with next gen trainers (unless Wahoo maintains compatibility with it).

[ms6073]

- getting a Tacx Neo (one of the many versions - definitely not the 3T as it's way out of budget) and pair it with the Tacx motion plates. Seemingly no downsides with this setup, especially if I can buy a used unit and bring the cost down. Though, I really don't know whether the plates are worth their price tag (and it's a hefty one).

We started using the motion plates with our V1 Tacx Neos and while I would not call it an earth shattering change, it did help to make things less dreary while riding routes or doing workouts with Rouvy but our time on the trainer rarely tops 60-minutes. As a side note, we also took advantage of the price reductions with the release of the Neo 3M so if you are in the US, I have a couple low cost (i.e. free save for shipping) options for lightly used v1 Neos but that does not include motion plates,

[ParisCarbon]

If you're willing to spend a bit more, I put my Neo 1 on a full motion rocker plate... moves left right and some fore/aft movement as well...

if you're going from a Core to a Neo expect to see a change in your power numbers as well..I own a Neo, Kickr6, and currently borrowing a friends Core to try out zwift shifting.. I honestly find the Core is easier to make the watts than the neo, and I can get 5-10% more out of the core quite easily...

[johnpuga1982]

I have the Neo 2T with the motion plates. However, the bike sits higher and can be annoying to get on. It can feel a little unstable when doing extremly hard sprints, but you can adjust your riding style to change that.

Garmin was offering free motion plates via a rebate if you purchased the Neo 2T and motion plates within a certain time frame. Not sure if that's still going on.

I'm liking the Tacx Training app more than Zwift. Zwift is better for racing, but the whole game enviornment annoys me after a while.

[wheelbuilder]

Maybe I missed it, but are you experienced with rollers? It's not really a "this or that" proposition if you don't ride them well to begin with. Too big of a learning curve to just start training on I think.

[robeambro]

Maybe I missed it, but are you experienced with rollers? It's not really a "this or that" proposition if you don't ride them well to begin with. Too big of a learning curve to just start training on I think.

Nope, never ridden them. As I said I wouldn't "train" on them, as 99% of my indoor riding is either dull Z2 or Zwift races (which I wouldn't do on rollers).

From most of the responses it does seem like the Tacx + motion plates is the way to go. I am sort of 'annoyed' at the low power reading but that's more of a vanity thing, and I guess if I wanted to boost my FTP-ego I could use my Rally pedals anyway.