New Sram Red

[wheelsONfire]

Talking DUB, i haven't seen any 1mm shims available for DUB axles, i had to source the correct bearings which are
S6806/29 LLB = 29 x 42 x 7 mm

Just one of multiple top hat examples.
https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/dub ... 1405339804
It combine internal sleeve with top hat/spacer, that's why it's specific to your bb width. BB30 road set is what you'd get if you start with BB30 bottom bracket.

I don't, i have direct press bearings as the original Cervelo RCA.
I use this kit and no need for additional spacers
I think it's just a BB386 by name.
https://cycling.endurobearings.com/coll ... -framesets

[Aeo]

SRAM is in a pickle because their current solution for improving rear shifting would not work on a 2x road groupset, as far as I can tell.

I am curious what they will do to compete with Shimano's Hyperglide+ tech

Please be more explicit. What is this solution you are referring to?

Making every shift perfect by fully controlling the chain during the shifting process. Look at the Transmission cassette with narrow-wide teeth, the role of the 7th gear during setup.

Haha, wrong with Sram rear shifting!!
It's perfect

I am not saying the shifting is bad. But time marches on and refinements are being made. Would you not like to shift perfectly under full power?

[ultimobici]

What I would want from SRAM Red:
- Shared standards with brand such as KMC, Sunrace, Shimano (very unlikely)

How does this benefit Sram? Chains & cassettes that are built to potentially less tight tolerances. As a result shifting is potentially compromised.

- Removal of DUB and GXP as a standard, just use Hollowtech or BB30 (very unlikely)

I’d suggest GXP and BB30 would be the ones to ditch judging by what I’ve seen of them at work over the last decade! GXP’s longevity is awful compared to HT2, and as for BB30, where to start?!

- Full backwards compatibility (better late than never)

For a system that is almost 5 years out of production? Be reasonable.

- Stop chainring integration (unlikely)

Fair point but, as you say, unlikely.

- Smaller shifters (likely)

If the latest Force is anything to go by, likely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TobinHatesYou]

I've heard rumors that inventory of current Red is too high for them to release the latest version. Like Competitive Cyclist has almost 40 groupsets available for sale. Now factor in every higher end bike shop in the US probably has a few in stock. I could see them waiting until the winter to drop it and not lose a bunch of money on current Red.

This didn’t stop SRAM from releasing Force D2. CC still has more than 20 Force D1 kits in stock and Bike Closet hasn’t been able to get rid of theirs for $849 either.

In other words, SRAM does not care all that much how many retail kits are out there still. What they do care about is losing complete bike sales to their competitors by having a stale product offering. SRAM has probably been dragging its feet on new Red because of the lukewarm adoption rate of R9200.

[Ypuh]

For some reason there are Sram bashers here.

Don't think so. All 3 of my bikes have SRAM and so will the 4th I'm building up. Etap's great and I consider myself an early adopter, but this topic is from what we expect from the new AXS and my expectations aren't great going by the trend from Etap22 to Red AXS to Force and now Rival AXS. All 'improvements' point to SRAM's balance sheet more than to the consumer. Same goes for Shimano and Campagnolo by the way, but SRAM aims more towards vendor lock-in and higher priced consumeables.

Talking DUB, i haven't seen any 1mm shims available for DUB axles, i had to source the correct bearings which are
S6806/29 LLB = 29 x 42 x 7 mm

Same, running Enduro 29mm ID bearings on my winter bike. My experience with BB30 (and a Hambini BB) has been 40.000km creak and nearly wear free. Experiences with shims have been creaks. They degrade over time and break, and can't be bought seperately. That's the primary reason I switched to BB30. Axle wear is only an issue when you neglect your bearings, but are stiffer and creak free if you don't. Shims only save you from poor maintenance.

[TobinHatesYou]

Talking DUB, i haven't seen any 1mm shims available for DUB axles, i had to source the correct bearings which are
S6806/29 LLB = 29 x 42 x 7 mm

Just one of multiple top hat examples.
https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/dub ... 1405339804
It combine internal sleeve with top hat/spacer, that's why it's specific to your bb width. BB30 road set is what you'd get if you start with BB30 bottom bracket.

I don't, i have direct press bearings as the original Cervelo RCA.
I use this kit and no need for additional spacers
I think it's just a BB386 by name.
https://cycling.endurobearings.com/coll ... -framesets

That kit clearly comes with additional bearing covers, they just aren’t sleeved like a tophat would be. In other words, you could easily just buy regular 6806s and use a tophat to the same effect, and not damage your aluminum spindle over the long term.

[TobinHatesYou]

Same, running Enduro 29mm ID bearings on my winter bike. My experience with BB30 (and a Hambini BB) has been 40.000km creak and nearly wear free. Experiences with shims have been creaks. They degrade over time and break, and can't be bought seperately. That's the primary reason I switched to BB30. Axle wear is only an issue when you neglect your bearings, but are stiffer and creak free if you don't. Shims only save you from poor maintenance.

And yet you claim to want Hollowtech II, which uses plastic shims most of the time, just like DUB. I have had zero creaking with my BB90 GXP setups which uses a plastic tophat on the DS.

Plus hexsense just linked a source for tophats.

In addition there’s also the complete elimination of galvanic corrosion.

[Ypuh]

And yet you claim to want Hollowtech II, which uses plastic shims most of the time, just like DUB. I have had zero creaking with my BB90 GXP setups which uses a plastic tophat on the DS.

Yup. But the 24mm axles are made from steel, so wear never won't be an issue. Also you can use 30mm ID bearings with 6mm caps, which is a better solution than the 25mm ID with 1mm shims. Not exactly Hollowtech, but at least 24mm axles provide better options.

Plus hexsense just linked a source for tophats.

These only work for BBinfinite I assume? I got a one piece Hambini BB, so the DS already pertrudes by +/- 5mm, putting the spindle in the exact middle. I use the same amount of spacers on each side.

Galvanic corrosion is also another issue of poor maintenance. Might be nice for the general public, but my bike gets used 4-5 times a week, bearings replaced every 10.000km and maybe once or twice a year take the spindle out to check for wear and regreasing. It sounds like a lot, but adds up to maybe 15-20 minutes a year on maintenance.

Anyway, I did install a one-piece BB. That might be a necessary requirement for BB30 to work properly.

[DaveS]

I see that CC is selling partial Red kits for $2690 and $1248 for force, while Excel Sports has force for $898. Red's not worth that much more to me.

[Hexsense]

I don't, i have direct press bearings as the original Cervelo RCA.
I use this kit and no need for additional spacers
I think it's just a BB386 by name.
https://cycling.endurobearings.com/coll ... -framesets

Then just get the ROAD kit for bb386 with 30mm id bearing.

INSERT-DUB-ROAD according to the table for BB386EVO.
https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/dub ... 0407877691

You can't really not using more spacer on the drive side with Dub without messing up chainline.
Official Dub BB is symmetical. Regular bearing cap is about 1.5mm. Yet, normally on drive side you still need 3mm spacer for the correct chainline.
For bb386, I think you don't need any extra. Just that kit with 4.3mm drive side and 1.5mm nds.

[RDY]

We haven't seen any more of those briefly sighted GRX-Di2-looking proto brifters from SRAM. I suspect SRAM may have changed their mind and decided to have Apex / Rival / Force / Red AXS effectively be all one SKU at the front end, with added buttons for Red, and lighter lever blades / clamps for Force and Red - it's what their sponsored teams are using (minus additional buttons). It would save them so much vs having a completely distinct Red unit.

Would also make sense then that the FD and RD were almost the same ...

But then how do they sell Red? Lighter crankset and more carbon accents? But then there's hardly any difference between 105 and Dura Ace Di2, so it's not like they could be criticized on the basis Shimano had a true, differentiated high end groupset ...

To me it looks virtually pointless paying for more than Rival AXS from SRAM, and 105 Di2 from Shimano at the moment. Red AXS cranksets excepted. You're paying thousands extra for a few grams less and bragging rights.

[TobinHatesYou]

We haven't seen any more of those briefly sighted GRX-Di2-looking proto brifters from SRAM. I suspect SRAM may have changed their mind and decided to have Apex / Rival / Force / Red AXS effectively be all one SKU at the front end, with added buttons for Red, and lighter lever blades / clamps for Force and Red - it's what their sponsored teams are using. It would save them so much vs having a completely distinct Red unit.

Would also make sense then that the FD and RD were almost the same ...

But then how do they sell Red? Lighter crankset and more carbon accents? But then there's hardly any difference between 105 and Dura Ace Di2, so it's not like could be criticized on the basis Shimano had a true, differentiated high end groupset ...

Another possibility is they plan on creating an entire line-up of “XPLR” levers and that was what we saw.

[RDY]

Doubt it given the cost cutting approach to Apex / Rival / Force shared parts. SRAM road levers - even the new ones rather than 'old' Red - are far easier to hold on to offroad than Shimano 12s road Di2 levers, so I'm not sure there'd be much need for it anyway.

[LanceLegstrong]

SRAM is in a pickle because their current solution for improving rear shifting would not work on a 2x road groupset, as far as I can tell.

I am curious what they will do to compete with Shimano's Hyperglide+ tech

Please be more explicit. What is this solution you are referring to?

Making every shift perfect by fully controlling the chain during the shifting process. Look at the Transmission cassette with narrow-wide teeth, the role of the 7th gear during setup.

Haha, wrong with Sram rear shifting!!
It's perfect

I am not saying the shifting is bad. But time marches on and refinements are being made. Would you not like to shift perfectly under full power?

Narrow-wide cassette for road? Bye bye small jumps. You'd have to have even number cogs for every gear.

[wheelsONfire]

I don't, i have direct press bearings as the original Cervelo RCA.
I use this kit and no need for additional spacers
I think it's just a BB386 by name.
https://cycling.endurobearings.com/coll ... -framesets

Then just get the ROAD kit for bb386 with 30mm id bearing.

INSERT-DUB-ROAD according to the table for BB386EVO.
https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/dub ... 0407877691

You can't really not using more spacer on the drive side with Dub without messing up chainline.
Official Dub BB is symmetical. Regular bearing cap is about 1.5mm. Yet, normally on drive side you still need 3mm spacer for the correct chainline.
For bb386, I think you don't need any extra. Just that kit with 4.3mm drive side and 1.5mm nds.

To be honest/ clear here. I don't remember if i measured these shims and bearing covers. At first i used the BB 386 Sram bearing kit (spacers from Sram to have correct chainline). But as i remember, i took them off to test how the Enduro bearings would spin with the cover and their original parts.
When i torqued the crank went for the option, not to use the NDS bolt. I went on and mounted and dismounted for the perfect amount of shims instead.
So i did never write down the specific amount of spacers DS and NDS.
I also must say that using the bearings which are 29mm didn't come as an issue. I use a small amount of grease at the axle and a rubber mallet.
You don't need to bash to get it to slide through. Just a light handed bash.
I don't doubt the DUB road kit works good. It's probably great. I have no idea what material these are made from, but it might be some composite plastic that doesn't wear much.