Weight Weenies

usr wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:29 pm

raggedtrousers wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:56 pm

Overall, on reflection I've tried to work out why this new launch actually made me a little sad, especially as it's a product I'd likely never be able to justify buying. I suppose it's because many of the things it suggests about Campag's future direction of travel are not what I would like, and it's probably the one brand I have anything resembling an emotional response to. I know they have to move forward; I just don't think this is the way. Oh well - everything changes and life moves on.

Precisely my feelings. I even noticed a considerable decay in my enthusiasm of finding an unscratched spare crank for the silver Athena on my old bike (but if anyone really wants to get rid of a 175mm 50 34 PT, I'm here)

Me too. Of all the reasons I loved Campagnolo - being different and being beautiful were two big reasons. Durability/quality and availability of the smallest replacement parts were the other big reasons. I'm not aware that superior function ever came into it - I've never thought Shimano couldn't do the job just as well.

1. Replacement parts have slowly become less available - No new springs for lever internals anymore - just a replacement module.
2. Beauty - the rot started with that first 12 speed mech rear derailleur and has accelerated since I'm afraid.
3. Being different - thumb levers gone and derailleurs the bastard son of SRAM.
4. That leaves durability and quality - hopefully still there.

I mentioned on the other thread that I do like the gear ratios and with a cheaper, better looking, mechanical version I might still remain a customer. I also love my Ekar groupset despite its less than beautiful derailleur - so there is hope yet!

tallboyeu wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:06 am

graeme_f_k wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:21 am

I'd say that the thumb lever was never about being "better" - it was different & some found it more ergonomic than Shimano.
I prefer it - but then, as I said in my original piece, I've used the thumb lever since 1993 so for me it has been a big change.

Some loved it, some hated it - it's still there on the mechanical and wired EPS groups, which let's not forget, are all still in production and available.

really? The website of campagnolo is somehow indicating otherwise. As a customer I'll read that as either mechanical (Record, SR, Chorus) or Wireless. no wired EPS.

https://www.campagnolo.com/gb-en/road/g ... groupsets/

I noticed the same and even our local distributor removed almost all of the EPS stuff from their listing.
As I'm one of the few rim brake guys I'm wondering whether I should rush purchasing the EPS 12s groupset while it's still available at some places, or whether it's safe to wait longer (for a better price hopefully)...

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mag wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:20 pm

tallboyeu wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:06 am

graeme_f_k wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:21 am

I'd say that the thumb lever was never about being "better" - it was different & some found it more ergonomic than Shimano.
I prefer it - but then, as I said in my original piece, I've used the thumb lever since 1993 so for me it has been a big change.

Some loved it, some hated it - it's still there on the mechanical and wired EPS groups, which let's not forget, are all still in production and available.

really? The website of campagnolo is somehow indicating otherwise. As a customer I'll read that as either mechanical (Record, SR, Chorus) or Wireless. no wired EPS.

https://www.campagnolo.com/gb-en/road/g ... groupsets/

I noticed the same and even our local distributor removed almost all of the EPS stuff from their listing.
As I'm one of the few rim brake guys I'm wondering whether I should rush purchasing the EPS 12s groupset while it's still available at some places, or whether it's safe to wait longer (for a better price hopefully)...

What makes you think you'll be able to find spares, such as batteries, a few years later for your planned purchase? Not try to troll, genuinely interested how people perceive legacy EPS support will pan out. It is a very low volume product after all compared to Di2 and AXS.

On a separate note, I would be interested in the new wireless product if it was available as an upgrade from the existing groupset (cranks/cassette). I could get on board with buying new wireless FD/RD/Brifters, but would probably go with a different brand if I had to change all components. The new gearing seems to deny this option.

Nickldn wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:39 pm

mag wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:20 pm

tallboyeu wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:06 am

graeme_f_k wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:21 am

I'd say that the thumb lever was never about being "better" - it was different & some found it more ergonomic than Shimano.
I prefer it - but then, as I said in my original piece, I've used the thumb lever since 1993 so for me it has been a big change.

Some loved it, some hated it - it's still there on the mechanical and wired EPS groups, which let's not forget, are all still in production and available.

really? The website of campagnolo is somehow indicating otherwise. As a customer I'll read that as either mechanical (Record, SR, Chorus) or Wireless. no wired EPS.

https://www.campagnolo.com/gb-en/road/g ... groupsets/

I noticed the same and even our local distributor removed almost all of the EPS stuff from their listing.
As I'm one of the few rim brake guys I'm wondering whether I should rush purchasing the EPS 12s groupset while it's still available at some places, or whether it's safe to wait longer (for a better price hopefully)...

What makes you think you'll be able to find spares, such as batteries, a few years later for your planned purchase? Not try to troll, genuinely interested how people perceive legacy EPS support will pan out. It is a very low volume product after all compared to Di2 and AXS.

Actually i tried to find EPS V3 Power Unit and Interface at (EU)european distributors. No luck…

Dov wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:24 am

This is the exact groupset that everyone clammered for: Wireless, heavier, bigger gear range, disc only, and very expensive... What's the problem?

For years now people have been calling for the death of rim brakes, complaining about wires running from point A to point B, wanting greater gear ranges with ginormous cassettes and bigger tires. This is the world they've made a groupset for. The only thing they didn't do was make it 1x.

Wireless = great
10t cog = great
disc-only = not great, but makes sense to Campagnolo
cost = not great

Very few people have been clamoring for the death of rim brakes, so don’t resort to this strawman. Many of us have just been pointing out that nobody, not even the rim-brake bike fan, is buying rim-brake stuff in quantities that make sense from the standpoint of continued development/production.

Wireless. I love the fact that I can swap my batteries in seconds for the ones that are 100% charged and waiting on my external charger. It adds a tiny bit of weight and some bulk, but the convenience is worth it. If a battery shorts out, it’s easy to replace then and there. What’s not great about Campy’s implementation is the novel battery shape for each derailleur…and the apparent cost of replacements. eTap batteries cost ~$50 each.

Campy is currently not offering ginormous cassettes, but they should. Let’s be real, most riders in the real world would be better suited to having lower than a 1:1 gear ratio at times. Range is generally good, especially when you have the option of ditching range for closer ratios—when you need them.

1x options would be good too. Flat TTs and crits exist. Gravel exists. What makes sense to me is that eventually Campy’s road and gravel lines merge into one like the AXS ecosystem.

So yeah, some aspects are good and some currently could be better. I just think SRAM is already doing all of the above a little bit better, and at this point with much cheaper options/tiers.

Nickldn wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:39 pm

On a separate note, I would be interested in the new wireless product if it was available as an upgrade from the existing groupset (cranks/cassette). I could get on board with buying new wireless FD/RD/Brifters, but would probably go with a different brand if I had to change all components. The new gearing seems to deny this option.

AG2R is doing this. They’re running 11-xx cassettes and standard chainrings. The chain is the same, the cog pitch is the same.

TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:03 pm

Nickldn wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:39 pm

On a separate note, I would be interested in the new wireless product if it was available as an upgrade from the existing groupset (cranks/cassette). I could get on board with buying new wireless FD/RD/Brifters, but would probably go with a different brand if I had to change all components. The new gearing seems to deny this option.

AG2R is doing this. They’re running 11-xx cassettes and standard chainrings. The chain is the same, the cog pitch is the same.

Will campagnolo honor warranty replacements?

It's funny that you release a halo groupset and sponsored elite riders use unsupported combos with older parts.

tallboyeu wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:10 pm

Actually i tried to find EPS V3 Power Unit and Interface at (EU)european distributors. No luck…

Yes some parts are getting hard to find, though I heard hints about the possible future availability (but it's about something like this fall).

If you need it now, the V3 Power Unit appears to be available here:
https://all4bikes.be/shop/en/eps-campag ... 26035.html
Though i've seen better prices elsewhere (but no stock currently).
Condor Cycles in UK also claim to have it in stock:
https://www.condorcycles.com/products/c ... er-unit-v3

The interface is much bigger problem, I've found it only in this UK-based shop that doesn't ship abroad:
https://www.thebikefactory.co.uk/shop/c ... 11/option/
Also Norwegian bikeshop.no claims to get it by next week (and they also have 1 power unit in stock), but again they ship only within the Norway.
But if you really need it, some mail forwarding service should solve the shipping problem.

Like all things electronic I don’t think the life span of wireless groups will be around as long as my c record group set. Still can crank out the miles.

Xabi wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:35 pm

TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:03 pm

Nickldn wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:39 pm

On a separate note, I would be interested in the new wireless product if it was available as an upgrade from the existing groupset (cranks/cassette). I could get on board with buying new wireless FD/RD/Brifters, but would probably go with a different brand if I had to change all components. The new gearing seems to deny this option.

AG2R is doing this. They’re running 11-xx cassettes and standard chainrings. The chain is the same, the cog pitch is the same.

Will campagnolo honor warranty replacements?

It's funny that you release a halo groupset and sponsored elite riders use unsupported combos with older parts.

It would have been great if the new groupset was released as compatible with both 10t and 11t cassettes and matching chainrings. Choice is always a good thing to have and I'm sure that would have made this thread a lot more positive.

I have had an issue with Campy warranty before, so would need to be totally sure 11t was supported before parting with what is for me a lot of money.

Xabi wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:35 pm

TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:03 pm

Nickldn wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:39 pm

On a separate note, I would be interested in the new wireless product if it was available as an upgrade from the existing groupset (cranks/cassette). I could get on board with buying new wireless FD/RD/Brifters, but would probably go with a different brand if I had to change all components. The new gearing seems to deny this option.

AG2R is doing this. They’re running 11-xx cassettes and standard chainrings. The chain is the same, the cog pitch is the same.

Will campagnolo honor warranty replacements?

It's funny that you release a halo groupset and sponsored elite riders use unsupported combos with older parts.

Happens everytime new components are released.. when EPS12 came out, there was the big up in the air issue that the SRM and P2Max powermeters weren't going to work since the spacing changed very slightly at the front, and then the early shot came out of the Lotto Soudal team at training camp riding EPS 12 with SRM and Campy 11s chainrings... it wasn't until the Record 12s crank came out that they started using the correct chainrings on the SRM (which never changed at all)

EdWiser wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:08 pm

Like all things electronic I don’t think the life span of wireless groups will be around as long as my c record group set. Still can crank out the miles.

This is only because the bicycle industry seems to get away with not repairing anything. Ooops sorry, your $800 derailleur is now a paper weight. We don't repair them. Just buy a new one if you still can. It's the same with a 3 year old $1200 "smart" trainer. They might sell you a belt but not a new circuit board.

And the bicycle tax that seems to apply to everything cycling related.
Yep, pay stupid prices and when it fails prematurely we will sell you something more expensive if we can.

Very few people have been clamoring for the death of rim brakes, so don’t resort to this strawman. Many of us have just been pointing out that nobody, not even the rim-brake bike fan, is buying rim-brake stuff in quantities that make sense from the standpoint of continued development/production.

Lol!!! ......... what?

Let's face it. The type of person on this board that specs a frame and picks all the components one by one is rare. In my club of 100 riders, I think I'm the only one that does this.

Most people in my club go to one of the two bike stores in town and buy a Trek or a Specialized. And they are only have disc brakes today so basically zero sales of rim brake among the average population.

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