I strongly disagree with your assessment on most points.zappafile123 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:18 amI love Campy, I only have campy on my four bikes, and I am *very* disappointed with this release. But more than that, I think some of the choices made by Campagnolo here could threaten their future. Who is going to buy this groupset? Here's a neatly organised list as to why this is the biggest groupset release flop in recent history.
1. Outrageously large derailleurs
The long-term feather in Campy's hat, which has been removed and put on the table is aesthetics. If you pull up a photo of 2nd gen Shimano Di2, the hideous Ultegra 6770, you'll see that the Campy derailleurs are LARGER. How!? Disgusting. Fat. Ugly. No. The derailleurs should be 40% smaller, look at Shimano, its 2023.
1b. logo aesthetics - thumbs down
I dunno, bland, not exciting, doesn’t pop, too subdued. Where is the campy flair?
2a. Stupid shifter button design
Vertical shift button layout? Did anyone think about how the physical structure of hands? Do you have two fingers that naturally extend down to hover unencumbered over vertically arranged each button? NO! Users will have to scrunch their hands, flex their wrists, to adjust the tip or tips of their fingers to hit each button. Dumb. Also two reviewers complained about a sharp edged of the shifter blade cutting into their hand. WTF.
2b. No thumb shifter
Some people don’t like the thumb shifter, that’s cool, no worries, they don’t buy campy. The thumb shifter is great. Yes, it’s not the best for reaching from the drops, but Campy could have just made it easier. The thumb shifter is (by and large) uniquely campy and very ergonomic from the hoods where is where people ride 95% of the time.
3. 750-1000km range?
Right... so some people are going to make sure they charge their batteries once every week and a half? That sounds like a massive pain in the ass. Why go for a gimmick over practical everyday use. This is, in effect, a dig at going wireless. The FSA WE and 9200 approach seems like a practical compromise. Why not do that? Its not at all hard to thread cables through two tubes. The benefit of an internal battery seems to obviously outweigh the benefit of an easier install.
4. SRAM gear ratios
One of the people reviewing the groupset did say that maintaining the perfect cadence was easier than old-school mid compact etc. Cool. Over the last few years, I feel as though I've seen by and large negative media on SRAMs ratios e.g., higher friction, pros demanding bigger rings, hubbards saying the small rings look dorky. Why did Campy go down a path where pretty much everyone said 'na, this is dumb'?
5. No update to the brakes/crankset?
It’s more of a niggling point, but why doesn’t the crankset look new and exciting? Why hasn’t there been an update to the brakes? I get that they were already good, but they have had 5 years to work out how to do something new.
6. No rim brake option
This could be beating a dead horse, and I don’t know sales figures, but I would have thought there was a profitable market niche by remaining the last hold out for high end rim brake group sets.
7. Apparently, the shifting sucks?
A remarkably frank review from Sam Gupta seems to suggest that the apparent steaming pile of garbage outlined above is in fact a steaming pile of garbage. You'd think that with the price, the 5-year gap between group sets that Campy could have at least nailed the shifting?
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/ ... s-groupset
9. Price
Pricing needs to be competitive. This whole thing 'we're a luxury brand, we need to be expensive for its own sake' is BS. Currently the pricing looks to be nearly double the cost of Dura Ace. Thats just getting ridiculous, especially when you consider your paying nearly double for an obviously inferior product. You'd have to be blind or dumb to buy this groupset over 9200.
Conclusion
So... Campy went and copied SRAM? Why? SRAM suck. What were Campy thinking with this release? I don’t know. Someone is smoking too much weed in Italy. I cant think of any positives from this release. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1a. Yes, the SRW derailleur is larger than SR EPS, but it contains more electronics and a battery. I believe that form should follow function, and if you're buying a wireless groupset, you need these functions in your derailleur. And for a wireless derailleur, I think it looks great. If you don't like the more bulky looks, buy something more simple.
1b. Logo aesthetics - This is not important, but I like the minimal design. The anthracite body and the silver/white letters will blend in nicely with any frameset.
2a. Shift button design - The vertical layout makes more sense to me than the horizontal layout. Different fingers will rest on the buttons and there's plenty open space around it to make sure you have the right one. I never used Di2, but on the first sight Campagnolo's layout makes more sense to me.
2b. No thumb shifter - Although I am a big fan of the classic thumb button, I believe the new design could work just as well. The buttons are reachable from any position and it is less divisive. I think we have to ride it a few times before making our minds up.
3. 750 - 1000K range - If you are buying an electronic groupset, you have to charge batteries. Don't want bulky derailleurs? Accept less battery capacity. Or accept semi-wireless a la Shimano. This is not a groupset for endurance racing or bikepacking. I think that 1000K is okay.
4. SRAM gear ratios - The ratios are actually very smart. Just right of the middle of the cassette, where there's a perfect chainline from the front big chainring, the gaps are the smallest (between 6.25% and 8.5%), while at both ends, the gaps increase to 10% on the fast end and up to about 12% on the slow end. With the smaller chainrings, this tighter middle is where most people will ride it.
5. No updates to crank and brakes - The brakes are industry-leading and the cranks are fine as they are. Don't see an issue here.
6. No rim brake option - This is a non-issue. The market for 5K euro wireless groupsets for rim brake framesets is practically nonexistent.
7. Shifting sucks - One reviewer had issues, could be the setup. Let's get some more independent reviews and real world experiences before we draw general conclusions about the shifting quality.
9. Pricing - Yes, the price is outrageous. Too bad that the only electonic groupset that Campagnolo had was replaced by this one, and that there's still not an affordable electronic group for the people. I hope that we will soon see a Chorus Wireless with sub 1:1 gearing for 2K euro or less. I'd buy that in an instant.
Yes, wireless blips need to be introduced, but SRAM didn't have them either when AXS was introduced.
Yes, an integrated power meter should be an option.
My conclusion is that this is a great leap forward for Campagnolo, but not so much for the groupset industry in general. It is so expensive that I just don't see who this is made for. It's not for the pro's because of the 10T cogs and the small chainrings. It is not for the cycling enthusiasts, because it is at least 2K too expensive for most of them.
Apart from that, excellent groupset, and great so see that Campagnolo is a player again in the market for modern (electronic) groupsets.