Why Campagnolo Wireless is a Flop/Disaster

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Did Campy make a bunch of terrible design choices?

Campy released an on trend GS with features and a design I like
77
28%
Campy released a steaming pile of garbage with features I dont like
199
72%
 
Total votes: 276

warthog101
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

HiFi wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:54 am
Dov wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:29 am
solarider wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:38 am
The problem with carrying a spare set of batteries is the price! $500+ for the pair is offensive and totally unjustifiable.
They should invent something that lasts for ages and is really durable, cheap to manufacture and buy replacments for that could be used to shift the derailleurs from cog to cog.
Yes, imagine we had only ever known:
  • radio electronics (eg bluetooth) to signal a desire to change cog
  • rare earth batteries to power a change of cog
  • rare earth motors to actuate derailleurs to change the cog
and then someone brought to market a very thin steel cable that itegrated all of that, so it:
  • transmitted the desire to change the cog
  • transmitted power from your finger/thumb to change the cog
  • actuated derailleurs to change the cog
We would look at it with wonder, welcome it in as a real step forward, as it massively reduced weight, bulk, and total parts that might fail.

On top of that, it's IP69K waterproof and never needs charging! Wow! You don't even need to carry a spare battery.

Amazingly Campag are already ahead of that game, and have those groupsets ready to buy today.
Well said! :)

by Weenie


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Xabi
Posts: 159
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by Xabi

ultimobici wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:44 am
Xabi wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:03 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:39 pm

On a separate note, I would be interested in the new wireless product if it was available as an upgrade from the existing groupset (cranks/cassette). I could get on board with buying new wireless FD/RD/Brifters, but would probably go with a different brand if I had to change all components. The new gearing seems to deny this option.

AG2R is doing this. They’re running 11-xx cassettes and standard chainrings. The chain is the same, the cog pitch is the same.
Will campagnolo honor warranty replacements?

It's funny that you release a halo groupset and sponsored elite riders use unsupported combos with older parts.
Of course they will. Campag stipulates using Campag parts as opposed to 3rd party parts.


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2x7 record crankset will do the job

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

solarider wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:38 am
The problem with carrying a spare set of batteries is the price! $500+ for the pair is offensive and totally unjustifiable.
Oh, is that the price of a pair the new Campanolo batteries?
If that is the deal, it's a problem for sure!

Someone mentioned batteries get smaller and smaller, well Srams battery looks same as when Etap came out.
I don't know if it's gained something, but looking at my Sram app, i don't think it draw as much as i thought it would.
I know people have complained of broken tabs etc, but i have never had a single battery damaged or exchanged since 2015-2016.
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Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I haven’t had a broken eTap battery tab in a few years, but it was definitely a problem early on.

robertbb
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Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

patchandscruff wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:29 am
robertbb wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:21 pm

AG2r rider Ben Oconnor dropped a chain towards the end of the stage at the Dauphine earlier...

I believe he's one of the ones riding wireless Super Record.

Could it be because of the non-standard plus-sized rings, or perhaps something else...
A dropped chain in a race? That's not on at all! AG2R should ditch Campagnolo immediately because I've never seen or heard of a dropped chain from Shimano or SRAM before. Looks like Campy's time is well and truly up in the pro peloton.
You alright there buddy?

bikeboy1tr
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Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

Well since I started running the etap 11sp and then going to AXS 12sp that the AXS batteries are the same size but the charge seems to last longer from the same size batteries which makes me think the AXS derail operates with more efficiency. I do shift frequently and notice that the first battery to throw a red light (discharge) is the front derail. I know that I can get at least 2hrs ride time out of that battery if it was throwing a green light the day before. This is still not a big deal as I can swap the batteries from front to rear and vise versa but I have never had to do this all the years since I have run etap/AXS.
SERIOUSLY, CHARGING BATTERIES IS NOT A BIG DEAL. We do it with our phones, tablets, earbuds, laptops,notebooks,bike computors and the list goes on and no one seems all that bothered by it. This is the way of the future and if your passionate about cycling as I know you are or you wouldnt be on this forum its less of an inconvience then you think.
Campy will evolve with this group this much I am sure of just like Sram has done with there groupset. I am hoping that the battery prices come down once production starts to ramp up because it is nice to have a spare and once ppl figure out which battery discharges first then that will be the battery to have as a spare.
Who knows perhaps Campy is currently brainstorming a way to solve the two different designs in batteries.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
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bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

Oh and one other thing is I have broken the tab on my etap battery which was replaced under warranty even though the group came out of the UK to Canada. I glued the tab years ago and I only recently disposed of it as the tab was too distorted to reglue. The Red AXS has more support around the bottom of the battery on the RD which lessons the chance of breaking the tab.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2019 Colnago V2R Disc Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
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jlok
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by jlok

Charging is not a big deal, but we can't let that to distract us from the fact that the Campy batteries are way too expensive fwiw. If it's the same price as SRAM I'd accept the inconvenience of different FD/RD batteries and short live. Hadn't battery chemistry improved? I thought there's Campy exclusive magic with the price. That rings a bell of the price of the first Li-Ion battery pack for a Motorola mobile phone. They got to do better like longer battery life or tricks like wireless charging with the price.
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Butcher
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by Butcher

Often time, prices for items are set at a price so nobody will buy them. They may not have the capabilites to make thousands of batteries so they have just a small amount. If you sold them for $10, people would just buy them and not even charge them. Selling them for $500 [if that is true] just keeps the market down. I'm certain they have a few sitting on the warranty shelf for those that do fail.

The other option is not to have the battery available at all, that does not go over well, so that option is rarely used.

Nickldn
Posts: 1867
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by Nickldn

Butcher wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:12 pm
Often time, prices for items are set at a price so nobody will buy them. They may not have the capabilites to make thousands of batteries so they have just a small amount. If you sold them for $10, people would just buy them and not even charge them. Selling them for $500 [if that is true] just keeps the market down. I'm certain they have a few sitting on the warranty shelf for those that do fail.

The other option is not to have the battery available at all, that does not go over well, so that option is rarely used.
These are batteries, a consumable item you're talking about, not some obscure Derailleur spring or circlip.

In my view one of the wisest decisions SRAM made was to provide cheap derailleur batteries.
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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

Nickldn wrote: These are batteries, a consumable item you're talking about, not some obscure Derailleur spring or circlip.

In my view one of the wisest decisions SRAM made was to provide cheap derailleur batteries.
Agreed. Campag’s decision on pricing is odd. I can only assume that the ability to charge on or off the bike coupled with the waterproofing adds cost. How they get to £500 for the pair is beyond me.


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Butcher
Shop Owner
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by Butcher

Obviously Campagnolo does not want batteries to go flying off the shelf. I really suspect it's because of the supply. If you really want them, they will sell them to you. Maybe the law requires that they are available. Who knows why, but I do know many companies put a seriously high MSRP on parts because they do not want to sell them, but are required to.

usr
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by usr

You write as if you were assuming that the 400+ price was only for people who really, really, really wanted spares. Unboxing videos suggest otherwise, and so do the prices: derailleurs are more expensive than end-of-life EPS by about the same factor as other parts - which also explains, badly, why the batteries are that expensive: without that ridiculous price, batteries would leave a "revenue gap" relative to the also ridiculously priced internal predecessor.

The first listings in shops aren't very clear about this, but I'd take it as a hint that they all diligently include a picture without battery...
Last edited by usr on Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

solarider
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm

by solarider

Judging from the groupset prices out there, the mechs don't come with batteries and you have to purchase them as part of the groupset.

So the $500 price point is not just for spares. It is to get the groupset up and running in the first place.

$500 for batteries simply cannot be justified. They would be better off selling them for $100 and making a loss and charging more for the mechs or something else in the groupset to recoup the cost (not that I believe in any way that they cost anything like the price to manufacture that a $500 would indicate).

I could stomach the high prices of everything else, but the p##s-off pricing of the batteries makes me question just how over priced the rest of the groupset is. It is just too visible a rip-off.

Sorry to keep coming back to price but many of the reasons why the groupset is a 'failure' is the value for money equation. I could live with quirks and lack of perfection if Campagnolo weren't asking perfection level pricing. And since it is realistically only available from Pro Shops, unlike SRAM and Shimano the prices will remain at or close to RSP for a long time. Availability is limited and nobody is discounting it.

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jih
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by jih

solarider wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:21 am
Judging from the groupset prices out there, the mechs don't come with batteries and you have to purchase them as part of the groupset.

So the $500 price point is not just for spares. It is to get the groupset up and running in the first place.
Is this confirmed? Personally, I'm not too worried about what a spare battery costs, but if the mechs don't come with one and they're £/$/€ 500 to buy for the first time, that's going to put me off.

I don't see why spare batteries are so essential personally. Have been riding electronic for a long time and never needed one. The longest I've ridden in a day is 340km, and knowing I was going long I made sure to charge the night before. On RAID pyreneean I charged exactly once at the halfway point as a precaution, but I still had 50% left when I did.

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