Why Campagnolo Wireless is a Flop/Disaster

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Did Campy make a bunch of terrible design choices?

Campy released an on trend GS with features and a design I like
77
28%
Campy released a steaming pile of garbage with features I dont like
199
72%
 
Total votes: 276

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zappafile123
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

RTW wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:37 am
My experience of Campagnolo is that they have a bit of a thing about getting things to market, perhaps before they are totally polished. SR11 wasn't great for year 1. I moved to Dura Ace as a result. I am now about to pull the trigger on SR12 mechanical rim - but this launch and that experience make me wonder if I am going to regret not purchasing Dura Ace mechanical / rim instead - I know I would have to find a 9100 group.
IMO the best mech rim brake campy is the 2015-2018 generation of SR (though of course some people would say the best ever is 10 speed Record). But getting reasonably priced NOS parts is now very difficult. There's a thread on SR12 issues. Its things like being really finnicky to setup, some GSs have constant loud chain noise, the GS goes out of tune, yada yada. Its a decent groupset once its dialled, but its not as good as it should have been.
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RTW
in the industry
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by RTW

patchandscruff wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:42 am
RTW wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:40 am
Reads like a blog post for a retailer who will sell quite a number of these groups to their clients so has concentrated on not being negative.
But I'm under the impression nobody is going to buy this new groupset?
yes, you're right! This is my mistake :lol:

There are very few people here saying 'I want that now' and a lot of people grumbling about it. But let's remember which brand this is. Campagnolo has a unique cult brand status amongst the groupset manufacturers. There is a cult following. People who beleive the brand is the ONLY brand. They will buy it regardless. Then there's group think. If lots of people are saying 'no way' then some who are going to buy it, just wont speak up.

Some of the comments are from those trolling the Campagnolo tofosi. Those who make the ShimaNO jibes, and slate SRAM as if either of these companies genuinely made inferior products which couldn't possibly be used by anyone using one of the other brands with just a slight reporgramming of muscle memory (which is all it takes). The people who like a bit of trolling are out in force.

Then there are the traditionalists, who want and hope for rim brake and/or mechanical shifting to be offered in the same way manual watches are offered. Perhaps that will transpire. The quarz revolution saw the whole Swiss Watch industry panic and create Quarz watches of their own, before the majority went back to selling something else - not performance, not accuracy, but craftsmanship and heritage.

There are other groups too....

BenCousins
Posts: 1366
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:46 am

by BenCousins

zappafile123 wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:34 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:58 am
6. We all thought Campy would be the last rim-brake holdout. As it turns out they’re the first to completely abandon it…now that’s irony!
100%. I am a diehard rim brake dude. I live in Sydney. I *f##k* dont need disc and I love that my fast bike weighs 6.4kg complete without exotic components. At least in the circles I run there are plenty of people who still love rim brakes and there are plenty of people saying they miss the simpler, quieter days of rim brakes. The market is small, but its there. If no one else does it, you win that market. Campy should have held out.
So you *dont* need disc brakes because you have no hills but you *do* want a light bike?

It's ok as you get older to not like change, but you don't need a justification beyond 'I prefer the good old days'.

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zappafile123
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

BenCousins wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:06 pm
So you *dont* need disc brakes because you have no hills but you *do* want a light bike?

It's ok as you get older to not like change, but you don't need a justification beyond 'I prefer the good old days'.
Oh there's plenty of hills, just no mountains 8)
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wilwil
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

The rear mech looks a lot better than Sram. They both have to accomodate a battery. Sram is the worst looking gruppo generally. I'm not keen on buying anything other than Campy but this is too expensive. I cant imaging building a bike with anything else so Im hoping there will be Record and Chorus versions.

solarider
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm

by solarider

I am in an important group that you missed.

Lifelong Campagnolo user. Genuinely excited to buy the new SR. Willing to overlook Campagnolo's esoteric design and idiosyncratic flaws. I REALLY want to like the groupset and can afford it. I am also in the market for a new groupset. I was an early adopter of discs and EPS. I should be their sales and marketing bullseye.

But I cannot see a single compelling reason to do so.
Last edited by solarider on Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

CampagYOLO
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

de zwarten wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:18 am
Isn't the price the MSRP though?

There is always a difference (sometimes very significant) between MSRP and real price on the market.
If Campa says it's 4500, shops could well be selling < 4000 (let's say 3800). Last time I checked, Dura Ace is somewhere in the 3200-3500 range. So real life differences could be much less than 'double the price'.

Irregardless of the real price difference, I expect perfection for that price, and the gear ratios and different batteries front / rear are really putting me off.
I don't like the placement of the shift buttons either.
In my experience real world Campag pricing is a lot closer to RRP than Shimano or SRAM.

usr
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

RTW wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:57 am
Campagnolo has a unique cult brand status amongst the groupset manufacturers.
Turning from has to had. Finding excuses for putting up with the company's attitude is getting harder every time they release a new generation. If you are convinced that Campagnolo buyers must have already lost any ability of feeling pain long before WRL you never understood us.

StiffWeenies
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm

by StiffWeenies

usr wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:53 pm
RTW wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:57 am
Campagnolo has a unique cult brand status amongst the groupset manufacturers.
Turning from has to had. Finding excuses for putting up with the company's attitude is getting harder every time they release a new generation. If you are convinced that Campagnolo buyers must have already lost any ability of feeling pain long before WRL you never understood us.
Campagnolo groupsets aren't just irrelevant, the brand as a whole is just straight up undesirable save for the Bora WTO Ultra which at least in my market is overwhelmingly paired with D-A/RED

There may be a core demographic of die hard Campy fans sustaining Vicenza, but those guys aren't the type to embrace 10T sprockets or any other distinguishing feature of the new SR. The true high end, new bike buying market however has long transitioned to slapping CS OSPWs on D-A/RED RDs.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

wilwil wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:44 pm
The rear mech looks a lot better than Sram. They both have to accomodate a battery. Sram is the worst looking gruppo generally. I'm not keen on buying anything other than Campy but this is too expensive. I cant imaging building a bike with anything else so Im hoping there will be Record and Chorus versions.

Here are the three derailleurs side-by-side. The joints between the parallelogram and cage knuckle on the Shimano and SRAM derailleurs have a cleaner look. The Shimano derailleur pivot connects coaxially with the additional b-knuckle segment. The SRAM derailleur doesn’t have the additional knuckle (and no DM hanger support.) The Campy derailleur has all the pivot hardware bolted on the outside. And why does the Campy cage have such a pronounced kink in it?
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usr
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

It looks as if it was designed to make derailleur hangers crumble just from the frame's owner browsing the Campagnolo website 😂

glepore
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

eurperg wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:53 am
The price of SR wireless group is the same as a complete Canyon Aeroad CF SLX 7 bike, which comes with Rival eTap AXS group with power meter and DT Swiss carbon wheels. And what does the new SR group even do better then the Rival AXS eTap group? It doesn’t measure power and looks bulky compared to Rival.
This is my issue with it. Its a Gucci bag now. Oh look, I can afford SR... . There's always been a premium but this is just stupid.
The buttons invite a miss shift. Guess no one in Vincenza rides with fall/winter gloves.
The gearing? Might well be progress, but a cassette and crank gets you that.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

LedZeppelin007
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

Ugh, god the rim brake versus disc brake thing again. Rim brakes are done and people should just accept that. For me, most of the benefits of disc brakes have nothing to do with braking (tire clearance, wheel design, won’t destroy your wheels in crappy weather).

The one thing I like about the groupset is the gear ratios. People have fundamentally misunderstood SRAM style gearing since AXS came out. Is it less efficient? Yes. Is the actual, practical difference much less than you think? I believe so. With AXS, you can stay in the big ring almost all of the time, which is a big efficiency benefit and you almost never use the 10t cog. The cassettes and chains are also ultra durable.

I love Campy’s gearing choices for EKAR and now this new SR. Everything else about this groupset aside from the brakes appears to suck, though.


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raggedtrousers
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:29 pm

by raggedtrousers

This might be a long post, so TL/DR - I don't get what Campagnolo are thinking and I'm frustrated with their fanboys.

I'm actually a Campag fan and really, really liked Record 11. I think Chorus 12 ticked a lot of boxes but was pretty finicky and there were problems with inconsistent spring tension out of the factory. Anyway, I was quite excited for this, in the hope it would trickle down to Chorus level in a year or 2. Now... well, it would have to be at less than UDi2 price, which ain't going to happen.

My issues are these:
- the death of the thumbshifter, the bulky derailleurs, disc only and the new ratios won't appeal to the traditional Campag buyers
- there's nothing obvious that will turn DADi2 and Red AXS buyers to Campag
- Campag stubbornly refuse to make Ekar electronic despite obvious demand
- Campag (at least for the moment) stubbornly refuse to make an electronic level groupset below SR (despite the very obvious way the market is going)
- they are now making very lukewarm noises about continuing with high level mech groups, again alienating their core market.

The way things are going, they are likely to turn off their existing buyers (generally over 50, traditional, affluent) and not attract many new ones. I'm worried they are trying to move themselves to a niche luxury brand without the product to back that up.

In fact, exactly that argument is tiresomely trotted out on other forums to excuse Campag's failure to listen and their high prices. Campag=Rolex, or Lamborghini: I hear it again and again. Except no-one who isn't already a die-hard fan thinks that. Most people think it's a bit dated, very expensive, and that Shimano and SRAM actually work better. They're not Lamborghini; they are Maserati, in the 1970s or 80s. And that the pros all choose Shimano instead says it all about performance.

I've never said this before but they need to get their act in gear soon or they'll become an irrelevance within 5 years.

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de zwarten
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by de zwarten

In defense of the shifter lever position:

You can customize all of those buttons.

For example:
you can have right upper for upshifting the cassette, left upper for downshifting the cassette. That is EXACTLY like Etap.
You can have right lower for upshifting the FD, and left lower for downshifting the RD.
This customization is helpful, e.g. when you have small hands (you won't shift the frond chainrings as much, so you assign the lowest / harder to reach shifting levers left and right for those shifting actions).

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