Why Campagnolo Wireless is a Flop/Disaster

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Did Campy make a bunch of terrible design choices?

Campy released an on trend GS with features and a design I like
77
28%
Campy released a steaming pile of garbage with features I dont like
199
72%
 
Total votes: 276

Bobbyc123
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:40 am

by Bobbyc123

I agree with most of this, but don't feel as passionate on all those points.
For disclosure, big campy lover and have it on 4 bikes, SR12 mechanical, EPSV3 and 2x EPSV4.

1. Outrageously large derailleurs
Yes on first look, they look gross. but this might all change when you see it in the flesh and get accustomed to it. When SR12 came out i didn't like the design or look and much preferred 11s. Now it's the other way around, people still think 11s is the best looking kit out there, but i think it looks really dated now.

1b. logo aesthetics - thumbs down
Subjective i guess.

2a. Stupid shifter button design
I think this configuration will be fine and you'll get used to it.

2b. No thumb shifter
I agree, it would have been cool if the thumb stayed in addition to the two paddle buttons.

3. 750-1000km range?
I have a big problem here. This is awful. I don't get the whole appeal for wireless anyway. It doesn't suit the end user. You need to route cables anyway, i'd prefer to have a longer battery life. If you've got more than one bike in rotation, it becomes even more annoying to need to keep on top of the charge. the hassle of charging does not outweigh the benefit of wireless.

4. SRAM gear ratios
This seems like a non issue unless you've got a FTP of over 6w/kg. They will likely bring out more sizes later.

5. No update to the brakes/crankset?
Brakes were said to be the best on the market, but agree some kind of update for marketing sake would have made sense.

6. No rim brake option
Having all rim brake bikes, i'm still fine with this. i've accepted my next bike will be disk. There are lots of benefits to this. you won't be able to get a nice rim brake bike to put this on soon anyway.

7. Apparently, the shifting sucks?
This is my biggest gripe. All i wanted to hear from this release is that this groupset has the fastest and most solid shifting available, ideally matching the handfeel and feedback you get from their mechanical groups. Their own marketing effort with GCN say it's only as fast as EPS V4, which was the same as V3. So effectively shifting speeds have never changed since EPS inception.

9. Price
I might not be in the majority here, but i've never paid RRP on a groupset. Prices always come down by 20% at some point at the retailer.

Conclusion
Personally it feels like all the work has been done on making the groupset wireless, and not perform better than their previous groups or what is currently on the market.

apr46
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

TLN wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:02 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:54 am
The batteries are removable. The inclusion of onboard charging is no doubt part of some patent minefield circumvention.

I'm convinced people complaining about (4) think they ride bikes differently than they actually do, and I love that the AXS app removes all doubt. If more people could see this kind of data collected from their rides, they'd be at ease with the 10t cog.

Here's a fun one from last night:
What app is that? I don't recall seeing anything like that in my sram app
There are bunch more data views including this one on the AXS web app.

by Weenie


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apr46
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

With a bit of time to reflect I think the majority of my dissapointment is a reflection of expecting something different from Campagnolo and not getting it. I wanted to have a reason be excited about buying Campagnolo and this isnt it.

Over time, I have migrated to Sram and then downmarket because there wasnt much to gain by spending more. As the peformance gap closed, the big difference was having one battery system / one electronics ecosystem across my bikes.

One thing I am happy for is that the 48/32 chainrings being the main combination will mean more power meter options for that specific size of chainring on the market and its a combo i really love with my AXS setups--and its one thing I really think Campagnolo got right vs. sram and shimano. Ive been running it primarily with a 10-30 on the road and a 10-33 or 10-36 on gravel and its awesome even though I think the 10-30 is actually a bit of a miss and I should either use the 10-28 or the 10-33 instead.

sevencyclist
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:36 am

by sevencyclist

I am waiting to see if the new white logoed Super Record crankset in 45/29 would work with the existing mechanical SR12 shifting system. No reason to believe it won't, so it would be an upgrade for me to gain an extra gear on the low end and drop some weight (143 grams) compared to my current Chorus 48/32 crankset. Afterall, this is a weight weenie forum, so weight matters...😄

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

My reaction is less strong than many here.

I like the font and graphics.
The crankset looks good to me
I could live with the 10 toothed cog though I really like 52/36 and 11-32.
The derailleurs look just as ugly as 12 speed Campagnolo, Shimano, or Sram. Just the modern look IMO.
I'm neutral on the new button layout until I've tried it personally. One can probably get used to anything.

My biggest knocks are price and power meter options. I need less than a $1500+ power meter. And why is a Stages Campagnolo $900? That should buy one a whole crankset especially at the Record level.

Also, that when Campagnolo came out with 12 speed. Chorus was dumbed down to Potenza quality with a price increase. Record seems to be inline with the old Chorus level. Now Campagnolo outdoes themselves with a $5000 groupset and there a huge hole in the middle now for the average buyer.

RTW
in the industry
Posts: 3756
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:32 pm

by RTW

joeyb1000 wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:56 pm
I'm not sure what both of you are basing your comments on. I have 12s eps and mechanical. EPS works great, and 12s mechanical is fantastic.
RTW wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:37 am
SR11 wasn't great for year 1. I moved to Dura Ace as a result.
Its right there what I am basing my experience on! :thumbup: :lol:

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1918
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

sevencyclist wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:05 pm
I am waiting to see if the new white logoed Super Record crankset in 45/29 would work with the existing mechanical SR12 shifting system. No reason to believe it won't, so it would be an upgrade for me to gain an extra gear on the low end and drop some weight (143 grams) compared to my current Chorus 48/32 crankset. Afterall, this is a weight weenie forum, so weight matters...😄
If you goto the Campagnolo website and select the crank from the groupset, goto technical specs documents.. at the crank section there is a statement that says the 12s crank are compatible SOLELY AND EXCLUSIVELY with the wireless groupset..

/https://www.campagnolo.com/on/demandwar ... 23_ENG.pdf

raggedtrousers
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:29 pm

by raggedtrousers

Thinking logically, I don't see why it wouldn't work, as the chain is the same, and Campagnolo have (grudgingly) admitted the existing 12sp cassettes will work on the new groupset (assuming maximum T size is respected). You'd have to drop your FD a few mm, which may be more/less hard depending on your frame. You'd need to check Q factor/chainline as well. My gut feeling is you could definitely get it to work, though. Above all, however, I suspect it'll be a $1000 crankset; that's a lot to spend to drop that weight...

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Bobbyc123 wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:36 pm

3. 750-1000km range?
I have a big problem here. This is awful. I don't get the whole appeal for wireless anyway. It doesn't suit the end user. You need to route cables anyway, i'd prefer to have a longer battery life. If you've got more than one bike in rotation, it becomes even more annoying to need to keep on top of the charge. the hassle of charging does not outweigh the benefit of wireless.

You don’t have to keep track. All you have to do is keep one extra set of batteries connected to the charge cable and swap them to whichever bike you want to ride for the next few hours, days, etc. It’s not like you can somehow discharge the batteries on two bikes at once, and you can fully charge a set of batteries in about an hour. You can’t discharge a set of batteries in an hour.

Mocs123
Posts: 826
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 9:19 pm

by Mocs123

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:01 pm
Bobbyc123 wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:36 pm

3. 750-1000km range?
I have a big problem here. This is awful. I don't get the whole appeal for wireless anyway. It doesn't suit the end user. You need to route cables anyway, i'd prefer to have a longer battery life. If you've got more than one bike in rotation, it becomes even more annoying to need to keep on top of the charge. the hassle of charging does not outweigh the benefit of wireless.

You don’t have to keep track. All you have to do is keep one extra set of batteries connected to the charge cable and swap them to whichever bike you want to ride for the next few hours, days, etc. It’s not like you can somehow discharge the batteries on two bikes at once, and you can fully charge a set of batteries in about an hour. You can’t discharge a set of batteries in an hour.
I prefer Shimano's "semi" wireless philosophy with a larger battery for longer life and smaller, cleaner looking derailleurs but there are advantages to both aproaches. I charge my Di2 battery every 2,500km or so, and have a remind set up on ProBikeGarage so I remember to charge it.
2015 Wilier Zero.7 Rim - 6.37kg
2020 Trek Emonda SLR-7 Disc - 6.86kg
2023 Specialized SL7 - 7.18kg

Ritxis
Posts: 1119
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

ParisCarbon wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:59 pm
sevencyclist wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:05 pm
I am waiting to see if the new white logoed Super Record crankset in 45/29 would work with the existing mechanical SR12 shifting system. No reason to believe it won't, so it would be an upgrade for me to gain an extra gear on the low end and drop some weight (143 grams) compared to my current Chorus 48/32 crankset. Afterall, this is a weight weenie forum, so weight matters...😄
If you goto the Campagnolo website and select the crank from the groupset, goto technical specs documents.. at the crank section there is a statement that says the 12s crank are compatible SOLELY AND EXCLUSIVELY with the wireless groupset..

/https://www.campagnolo.com/on/demandwar ... 23_ENG.pdf

Does the group have any sensor to know if you have some cranks or others? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1918
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Ritxis wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:59 pm
ParisCarbon wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:59 pm
sevencyclist wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:05 pm
I am waiting to see if the new white logoed Super Record crankset in 45/29 would work with the existing mechanical SR12 shifting system. No reason to believe it won't, so it would be an upgrade for me to gain an extra gear on the low end and drop some weight (143 grams) compared to my current Chorus 48/32 crankset. Afterall, this is a weight weenie forum, so weight matters...😄
If you goto the Campagnolo website and select the crank from the groupset, goto technical specs documents.. at the crank section there is a statement that says the 12s crank are compatible SOLELY AND EXCLUSIVELY with the wireless groupset..

/https://www.campagnolo.com/on/demandwar ... 23_ENG.pdf

Does the group have any sensor to know if you have some cranks or others? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I wouldnt specifically say a sensor, but on the cyclingnews website on the launch date, there was a blurb that mentioned the old cassettes were not recommended due to the arc of the rear derailleur... Id suspect the possibly the wireless is finicky on knowing the chainrings (I don't know) and the arc the FD takes... I dunno I didnt design the stuff, and am only assuming stuff off what cyclingnews stated...

Ritxis
Posts: 1119
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

.

Ritxis
Posts: 1119
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

ParisCarbon wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:03 pm
Ritxis wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:59 pm
ParisCarbon wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:59 pm
sevencyclist wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:05 pm
I am waiting to see if the new white logoed Super Record crankset in 45/29 would work with the existing mechanical SR12 shifting system. No reason to believe it won't, so it would be an upgrade for me to gain an extra gear on the low end and drop some weight (143 grams) compared to my current Chorus 48/32 crankset. Afterall, this is a weight weenie forum, so weight matters...😄
If you goto the Campagnolo website and select the crank from the groupset, goto technical specs documents.. at the crank section there is a statement that says the 12s crank are compatible SOLELY AND EXCLUSIVELY with the wireless groupset..

/https://www.campagnolo.com/on/demandwar ... 23_ENG.pdf

Does the group have any sensor to know if you have some cranks or others? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I wouldnt specifically say a sensor, but on the cyclingnews website on the launch date, there was a blurb that mentioned the old cassettes were not recommended due to the arc of the rear derailleur... Id suspect the possibly the wireless is finicky on knowing the chainrings (I don't know) and the arc the FD takes... I dunno I didnt design the stuff, and am only assuming stuff off what cyclingnews stated...

What do you want Campagnolo to say...don't Shimano and Sram also say similar things??? and then all kinds of mixes are made......
I wouldnt specifically say a sensor, but on the cyclingnews website on the launch date, there was a blurb that mentioned the old cassettes were not recommended due to the arc of the rear derailleur... Id suspect the possibly the wireless is finicky on knowing the chainrings (I don't know) and the arc the FD takes... I dunno I didnt design the stuff, and am only assuming stuff off what cyclingnews stated...

spartacus
Posts: 1049
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

1. Outrageously large derailleurs
Meh, sounds like their hands are tied with the battery thing.

1b. logo aesthetics - thumbs down
Meh

2a. Stupid shifter button design
Would need to use it for a while first

2b. No thumb shifter
Good

3. 750-1000km range?
Fine if the batteries are removable, this is the price for wireless.

4. SRAM gear ratios
People complaining about the gear ratios have the worst possible take here, if anything campy should be applauded for going 10t because, even though it's impossible for the math illiterate to grasp apparently, the range is better. It's only a matter of time before 10t becomes the standard and 11t is old.


5. No update to the brakes/crankset?
:noidea:

6. No rim brake option
Hilarious since retro grouches love campy

7. Apparently, the shifting sucks?
doubt

9. Price
agreed it's excessive

Conclusion
It's a modern day groupset that checks the boxes but costs too much to be objectively worth it

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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