Why Campagnolo Wireless is a Flop/Disaster

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Did Campy make a bunch of terrible design choices?

Campy released an on trend GS with features and a design I like
77
28%
Campy released a steaming pile of garbage with features I dont like
199
72%
 
Total votes: 276

rudye9mr
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

As battery tech evolves, RD and FDs will be smaller and lighter...companies probably already sitting on the tech ready for next high priced release.

One would hope it gets cheaper or user can select capacity of battery esp if removable.

usr
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

LuigiG wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:48 pm
Hello everybody. A lot of comments...some of them already at the point "guilty or not guilty"...that's funny...who did already ride a bike equipped with the wireless version? Just asking...how can you judge something, food i.e., if you didn't even taste it?..this post is soooo funny...keep going...
Riding would tell us if it shifts well or not. The comments (well, most of them, except for the few referencing unimpressed reviewers) are about aspects completely orthogonal to shifting quality. We take shifting quality as a given, nobody doubts it (again, aforementioned exceptions). Actually I'd take nice shifting as a given already on a 400 € group. it's like trying to rate a hotel by how well the roof keeps the rain out: they all do.

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AJS914
Posts: 5397
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by AJS914

Luigi, if the food stinks, you don't have to buy it. :-)

Seriously, I could deal with the ratios, the looks don't bother me, and I could learn the new button layout. The price and the lack of power meter options is what stinks for me. I just bought an integrated frame and I'm thinking Rival AXS + a proper Quark power meter for around $2k. Or Ultegra di2 and a Power2Max.

Campagnolo has nothing for me other than a 3 year old mechanical group, limited power meter options and I'd prefer not to try routing that through this frame.

usr
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

Butcher wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:02 pm
I think wireless is just a stupid idea but if I charge my Garmin after every ride, why would I have a problem charging my bike at a certain interval? Every week?
I used to do that, now that Garmins can guide you through four-digits kilometers on a single charge I keep having close calls.Charging habits are weird.
Again, I would pay extra to have a hidden battery inside a frame. The one I have has been inside the frame for 10+ years and it's just fine.
Yeah, think it's a missed chance that they did not design the battery socket in a way that would nicely fit a cable adapter for those who prefer internal. It would give them something that neither Shimano not SRAM have, even if it's just choice (at the cost of even less scale efficiency, but I think it would have been worth it, as a positive talking point). I'm no expert at all, but I wouldn't even be surprised if that could have also served as an avoidance of the SRAM patent ("it's not a battery connector, it's a cable connector that can take a battery", common sense has no place in the application of patent law)

jih
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:54 pm

by jih

rudye9mr wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:10 pm
As battery tech evolves, RD and FDs will be smaller and lighter...companies probably already sitting on the tech ready for next high priced release.

One would hope it gets cheaper or user can select capacity of battery esp if removable.
They only have access to the same batteries as everyone else. There won't be a significant difference in energy density of the li-ion batteries used between groupset makers.

I don't see the issue personally. Who rides 750km without having access to a charger? The only group I can think of are people doing TCR or RAAM and these are a very small subset of cyclists.

Especially since we already have a bunch of stuff that we charge more often, like cycle computers.

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

ultimobici wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:24 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:Wireless isn't that strange, that's what most people want.
Separate batteries is way better than one single battery.
Just wait until you have had issues with Di2 (5 batteries) and have to go through all connectors and components time and time again.
With the new 9270 Di2 you’re talking about 2 wires, so 4 connections. 9250 requires a couple more. Having had 9050, 9150 and now 9250 & 9270 I have had zero issues.
You can easily swap the batteries if you forgot to charge them. RD will get more use, so it's what will give up first.
You just swap them and ride big ring.
Although i have never had a problem with this since 2015 (Etap and now AXS).
If your mind has a problem remembering, just bring a spare battery (you can tape it to the saddle or seatpost).
But Campag have elected to use different batteries that aren’t interchangeable.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I didn't know that Sram had patent on this to. It sounds ridiculous that just Sram can use same battery in both FD and RD.

Yeah, i understand i had a weird situation with my batteries. I actually bought my UP custom from Germany. But the dealer was not really nice when the trouble began, so i dealt directly with the head mech at Shimano overhere. Anyway, the last battery i got is grey, and that has been running without giving up.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Not only that, but the patent also references a release mechanism on the base member of the derailleur. This is why neither SR WL derailleur has a releasable mechanism...the batteries themselves have the latching/sliding mechanisms.

usr
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

What's the situation with those batteries regarding 6.8 anyways? Are they allowed to remain attached in the weigh-in or do they have to be removed like a Garmin but gnome a Bolt with its namesake in place? (or are UCI weigh-ins a thing of the past anyways, in this age of disc, aero and servo?)

And do pictures of the charging cable already exist? 20% battery in 10 minutes sounds like a lipstick charger at the coffee stop might actually be an option. But only if the cables aren't workshop-sized. An adapter from plain USB like on the Assioma (but less bulky) would be perfect.

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

usr wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:19 pm
LuigiG wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:48 pm
Hello everybody. A lot of comments...some of them already at the point "guilty or not guilty"...that's funny...who did already ride a bike equipped with the wireless version? Just asking...how can you judge something, food i.e., if you didn't even taste it?..this post is soooo funny...keep going...
Riding would tell us if it shifts well or not. The comments (well, most of them, except for the few referencing unimpressed reviewers) are about aspects completely orthogonal to shifting quality. We take shifting quality as a given, nobody doubts it (again, aforementioned exceptions). Actually I'd take nice shifting as a given already on a 400 € group. it's like trying to rate a hotel by how well the roof keeps the rain out: they all do.
AG2r rider Ben Oconnor dropped a chain towards the end of the stage at the Dauphine earlier...

I believe he's one of the ones riding wireless Super Record.

Could it be because of the non-standard plus-sized rings, or perhaps something else...

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

usr wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:50 pm
What's the situation with those batteries regarding 6.8 anyways? Are they allowed to remain attached in the weigh-in or do they have to be removed like a Garmin but gnome a Bolt with its namesake in place? (or are UCI weigh-ins a thing of the past anyways, in this age of disc, aero and servo?)

And do pictures of the charging cable already exist? 20% battery in 10 minutes sounds like a lipstick charger at the coffee stop might actually be an option. But only if the cables aren't workshop-sized. An adapter from plain USB like on the Assioma (but less bulky) would be perfect.

If you're going to carry a tiny battery bank, why not just carry a spare derailleur battery? This is the problem with two different shaped batteries, you don't have the option of carrying just one spare.

solarider
Posts: 577
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by solarider

The problem with carrying a spare set of batteries is the price! $500+ for the pair is offensive and totally unjustifiable.

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Dov
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by Dov

solarider wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:38 am
The problem with carrying a spare set of batteries is the price! $500+ for the pair is offensive and totally unjustifiable.
They should invent something that lasts for ages and is really durable, cheap to manufacture and buy replacments for that could be used to shift the derailleurs from cog to cog.
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patchandscruff
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:58 am

by patchandscruff

robertbb wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:21 pm

AG2r rider Ben Oconnor dropped a chain towards the end of the stage at the Dauphine earlier...

I believe he's one of the ones riding wireless Super Record.

Could it be because of the non-standard plus-sized rings, or perhaps something else...
A dropped chain in a race? That's not on at all! AG2R should ditch Campagnolo immediately because I've never seen or heard of a dropped chain from Shimano or SRAM before. Looks like Campy's time is well and truly up in the pro peloton.

usr
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:14 am
If you're going to carry a tiny battery bank, why not just carry a spare derailleur battery? This is the problem with two different shaped batteries, you don't have the option of carrying just one spare.
Tiny usb battery isn't tied to your derailleur, it can be a problem solver for all kinds of battery trouble. Certainly not a quick swap while the race clock is running, but it's a multitool, even if not all of problem candidates can do without an adapter.


Edit: and yeah, I'd really prefer the SRAM-swap (where you can at least fall back to rear-only even without carrying anything extra), just looking for ways alternative approaches might also have a few advantages. The best setup in my opinion (or second best, because I'd prefer living in a world where motor shifting never happened on human powered bikes) would be swappable batteries like on AXS, but with a waterproof+dustplugged USB inlet like on a Garmin, or like on any cheap taillight.

All that pretentious "yeah, our stuff is so special it can't run with off-brand electrons" is such a joke. I guess some people love cosplaying team mechanic with a bank of charger slots tailored to the groupset they operate neatly arranged on their workbench, I'm not one of those. But the new campag charger seems to just be a simple 4x USB supplied as an excuse to ask 90€ for the adapter cables (or maybe cables come with the batteries? I suspect not...), so they seem to be on the right way at least. That's why I was asking about the cables/adapters, if they are nice to pack/store/replace (and not some campag-specific three meters monstrosities no easier to pack than a bank of AXS battery docks) they might actually end up the least pretentious of the three in terms of charging. Now that would be something entirely unexpected! (well, amongst those with external batteries, the current Shimano USB adapter seems unpretentious enough, tolerable to carry e.g. in a bikepacking situation, even if aging Garmin if they'd be ok with adopting that little watch plug would be best of all worlds, plenty of very packable adapters on the market and many users would already have a few)
Last edited by usr on Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

HiFi
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:51 pm

by HiFi

Dov wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:29 am
solarider wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:38 am
The problem with carrying a spare set of batteries is the price! $500+ for the pair is offensive and totally unjustifiable.
They should invent something that lasts for ages and is really durable, cheap to manufacture and buy replacments for that could be used to shift the derailleurs from cog to cog.
Yes, imagine we had only ever known:
  • radio electronics (eg bluetooth) to signal a desire to change cog
  • rare earth batteries to power a change of cog
  • rare earth motors to actuate derailleurs to change the cog
and then someone brought to market a very thin steel cable that integrated all of that, so it:
  • transmitted the desire to change the cog
  • transmitted power from your finger/thumb to change the cog
  • actuated derailleurs to change the cog
We would look at it with wonder, welcome it in as a real step forward, as it massively reduced weight, bulk, and total parts that might fail.

On top of that, it's IP69K waterproof and never needs charging! Wow! You don't even need to carry a spare battery.

Amazingly Campag are already ahead of that game, and have those groupsets ready to buy today.
Last edited by HiFi on Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


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