Sram Red Axs and suitable chains

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Xabi
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:55 pm

by Xabi

padollman wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:24 pm
That's what I thought too, but if you look at ZeroFriction testing on both (https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/chaintesting/) the Red comes out worse (once both are lubricated with a performance lube rather than stock grease) I can't see how the hole in the pin alone would cause that, and some have suggested that the tolerancing is tighter on the Red and that's why. I guess the hollow pins could be less stiff leading to additional losses under load when they flex...
Different batches probably

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

padollman wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:24 pm
That's what I thought too, but if you look at ZeroFriction testing on both (https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/chaintesting/) the Red comes out worse (once both are lubricated with a performance lube rather than stock grease) I can't see how the hole in the pin alone would cause that, and some have suggested that the tolerancing is tighter on the Red and that's why. I guess the hollow pins could be less stiff leading to additional losses under load when they flex...
You thought correct. Because the surface treatment is same between Force and RED. Don't know if the none hollowed pins are better!?
If you use the large chainring as intended, you could use it from 26-28 to 10T cog. In theory the hollow pins would agree more to extremer angles, which is probably a bonus. However, hollow pins also allow dirt to fill the holes. So it's a hard call i guess!?
The RED cassette is less prone to noise (than Force), but if those 40gs are worth the amount extra over Force is questionable.
Quite often it's 2 Force for same price as 1 RED.
What i do like with it is that it's steel. It shifts better than the Edco versions. I have 4 Edco. These are now sold as E.dubied+Co.

Talking chains again, if you clean your bike often (keeping chain clean), i think you gain keeping friction lower, is made keeping chain, chainrings and jockey wheels as clean as possible. Some people rely more on chainlube for this. But cleaning the chain is still better than relying more on self-cleaning lube.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

by Weenie


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Peepooper
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:21 pm

by Peepooper

I am currently using SRAM Eagle 12speed chain with SRAM XX1 11 sppeed quick link on SRAM RED casstte and dereailleur, It works fine..

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

splzd wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:19 am
bobones wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:36 am
Meanwhile, KMC and YBN produce 12-speed chains that they claim are AXS or universally 12-speed compatible in direct contradiction to ZFC. Also, Praxis (and I assume others) produce chain rings that they say are also universally 12-speed compatible.
Of course they claim that. Otherwise they would have to say "offering a specific AXS-compatible chain with the exact dimensions of AXS would cost us lots of money in engineering and manufacturing, so we couldn't be bothered. Offering the same chain for all 12-speed systems is a compromise - it will probably work okay, but might not".
For the color, got the newer KMC X12 TiN gold chain (big "12" marked on outer plates). The down-shifting at the 5-6th / middle of the cogs of XG-1290 10-33 is very hesitated under load (Force 36T RD). Setting the b-screw that put the chain closer to cassette improved a bit. Still not recommended.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

bikeboy1tr
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Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:10 pm
padollman wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:24 pm
That's what I thought too, but if you look at ZeroFriction testing on both (https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/chaintesting/) the Red comes out worse (once both are lubricated with a performance lube rather than stock grease) I can't see how the hole in the pin alone would cause that, and some have suggested that the tolerancing is tighter on the Red and that's why. I guess the hollow pins could be less stiff leading to additional losses under load when they flex...
You thought correct. Because the surface treatment is same between Force and RED. Don't know if the none hollowed pins are better!?
If you use the large chainring as intended, you could use it from 26-28 to 10T cog. In theory the hollow pins would agree more to extremer angles, which is probably a bonus. However, hollow pins also allow dirt to fill the holes. So it's a hard call i guess!?
The RED cassette is less prone to noise (than Force), but if those 40gs are worth the amount extra over Force is questionable.
Quite often it's 2 Force for same price as 1 RED.
What i do like with it is that it's steel. It shifts better than the Edco versions. I have 4 Edco. These are now sold as E.dubied+Co.

Talking chains again, if you clean your bike often (keeping chain clean), i think you gain keeping friction lower, is made keeping chain, chainrings and jockey wheels as clean as possible. Some people rely more on chainlube for this. But cleaning the chain is still better than relying more on self-cleaning lube.
I emailed Edco and asked about the E.dubied and I was told that E.Dubied was a different company that one of the Edco employees started up after branching off on his own. Edco didnt seem all that impressed and directed me to purchase from another company who was doing the one piece cassette. I would be surprised that they would do anything together.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2019 Colnago V2R Disc Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:09 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:10 pm
padollman wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:24 pm
That's what I thought too, but if you look at ZeroFriction testing on both (https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/chaintesting/) the Red comes out worse (once both are lubricated with a performance lube rather than stock grease) I can't see how the hole in the pin alone would cause that, and some have suggested that the tolerancing is tighter on the Red and that's why. I guess the hollow pins could be less stiff leading to additional losses under load when they flex...
You thought correct. Because the surface treatment is same between Force and RED. Don't know if the none hollowed pins are better!?
If you use the large chainring as intended, you could use it from 26-28 to 10T cog. In theory the hollow pins would agree more to extremer angles, which is probably a bonus. However, hollow pins also allow dirt to fill the holes. So it's a hard call i guess!?
The RED cassette is less prone to noise (than Force), but if those 40gs are worth the amount extra over Force is questionable.
Quite often it's 2 Force for same price as 1 RED.
What i do like with it is that it's steel. It shifts better than the Edco versions. I have 4 Edco. These are now sold as E.dubied+Co.

Talking chains again, if you clean your bike often (keeping chain clean), i think you gain keeping friction lower, is made keeping chain, chainrings and jockey wheels as clean as possible. Some people rely more on chainlube for this. But cleaning the chain is still better than relying more on self-cleaning lube.
I emailed Edco and asked about the E.dubied and I was told that E.Dubied was a different company that one of the Edco employees started up after branching off on his own. Edco didnt seem all that impressed and directed me to purchase from another company who was doing the one piece cassette. I would be surprised that they would do anything together.
I guess Edco are right and i was told wrong. But i was told these are same same really. No difference at all!
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 1395
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

I think Edco and E.Dubied maybe very close in tolerances but because I had good results from the E.Dubied I decided to stay with them for my second purchase of a 12sp cassette by them. Back in the winter I emailed Edco as I couldnt get the E.Dubied cassette that I wanted. I assumed that they were the same company and although Edco had the cassette I wanted they only shipped within the UK. I asked why Edco wouldnt ship outside like E.Dubied and thats when he explained who E.Dubied was and the two had nothing to do with one another.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2019 Colnago V2R Disc Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 1395
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

A friend has a new bike with Sram Rival 12sp he purchased over the winter so low miles. The last few weeks it has been making a chattering noise from the RD as though it has a bent hanger and its in most every gear. A glance at the Rd appears as its fine but when I measure it out for alignment its only out by a mm. I put one of my own wheels on it and noise is gone. I pulled the cassette and freewheel with all the brgings feel and sound like new as they should on the Swiss DT wheel.
My question is has anyone had the Rival 10/36 cassette making a chattering noise with very little mileage on it. The chain is a Flat Top as well.
My suggestion to him was to purchase a new Force cassette with 10/33 as it would be more suitable to our terrain here and good enough for any climbing in the area.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2019 Colnago V2R Disc Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

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