Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!
Moderator: robbosmans
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Knightyboy27
- Posts: 268
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:06 pm
by Knightyboy27 on Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:46 pm
hannawald wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:52 am
Eterna7m wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:08 am
Knightyboy27 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:42 pm
Looks like neither the RCR or FCR consider having a bottle on the downtube when it comes to aerodynamics...very odd tube shapes for the modern era.
What do you mean, there are bottle cage mounts on both the seat and down tube or are there newer versions?
Tube shapes are just generic. Nothing special.
Probably that the down tube is not wide enough to cover a bottle from the air.
Exactly. Big brands have done a lot of engineering/marketing to show that designing for real world use, which includes modelling for a water bottle on the down tube, is more beneficial to aerodynamics (the BMCs and Pinarello Dogma are obvious examples), yet these tube shapes look very old school and disregard the bottle mounts as almost afterthoughts.
Not sure whether Tour magazine actually measure with bottles in place or not.
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Nickldn
- Posts: 1896
- Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am
by Nickldn on Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:11 pm
The problem with buying a Van Rysel is that you will be riding a Van Rysel.
I know this, I have a Vitus.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
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Bravo73
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:16 am
- Location: UK
by Bravo73 on Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:01 pm
Erlandal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 3:22 pm
And if you work for Decathlon, you get a 25% discount
Really???!?
I might have to get meself a weekend job. £2700 for that…?
2011 S-Works Tarmac SL3 (ex-Team Highroad)
2023 Canyon Aeroad CF SLX
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ViperFFM
- Posts: 365
- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:11 am
- Location: Frankfurt am Main,DE
by ViperFFM on Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:06 pm
Nickldn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:11 pm
The problem with buying a Van Rysel is that you will be riding a Van Rysel.
I know this, I have a Vitus.
I have drivena S-Works, Pro, Trek, Orbea and others I wouldnt mind driving around with this. Credit where credit is due; insane bike.
I dont even think the Sl65 are too bad of a deal given their height. Sure, 1500g would have been better at that deepth it comes at quite the markup
carbonLORD wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:23 am
I'm a CAT 3 Masters racer, not a dentist.
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BigBoyND
- Posts: 1414
- Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
- Location: Berlin, DE
by BigBoyND on Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:11 am
blaugrana wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:22 pm
I thought the same thing. Canyon is still often referred as a great value option, but it's nothing like it used to be....Now it seems that anything
slightly below Specialized prices can be considered cheap.
Canyon Ultimate CFR Red eTap with 353 NSW wheels: 11,000€
Specialized SL7 Red eTap with Roval wheels: 14,500€
It's 3,500€ less and comes with more expensive wheels. That's over 30% price difference. Not sure why you would say that's only slightly less.
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Lina
- Posts: 1146
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm
by Lina on Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:48 am
Knightyboy27 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:46 pm
hannawald wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:52 am
Eterna7m wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:08 am
Knightyboy27 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:42 pm
Looks like neither the RCR or FCR consider having a bottle on the downtube when it comes to aerodynamics...very odd tube shapes for the modern era.
What do you mean, there are bottle cage mounts on both the seat and down tube or are there newer versions?
Tube shapes are just generic. Nothing special.
Probably that the down tube is not wide enough to cover a bottle from the air.
Exactly. Big brands have done a lot of engineering/marketing to show that designing for real world use, which includes modelling for a water bottle on the down tube, is more beneficial to aerodynamics (the BMCs and Pinarello Dogma are obvious examples), yet these tube shapes look very old school and disregard the bottle mounts as almost afterthoughts.
Not sure whether Tour magazine actually measure with bottles in place or not.
I don't get this. The downtube doesn't look drastically narrower than many other bikes out there. Of course I haven't seen it live but it doesn't look like those old aero bikes where it's a complete aerofoil that then has bottle mounts.
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Knightyboy27
- Posts: 268
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:06 pm
by Knightyboy27 on Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:46 am
Lina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:48 am
Knightyboy27 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:46 pm
hannawald wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:52 am
Eterna7m wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:08 am
What do you mean, there are bottle cage mounts on both the seat and down tube or are there newer versions?
Tube shapes are just generic. Nothing special.
Probably that the down tube is not wide enough to cover a bottle from the air.
Exactly. Big brands have done a lot of engineering/marketing to show that designing for real world use, which includes modelling for a water bottle on the down tube, is more beneficial to aerodynamics (the BMCs and Pinarello Dogma are obvious examples), yet these tube shapes look very old school and disregard the bottle mounts as almost afterthoughts.
Not sure whether Tour magazine actually measure with bottles in place or not.
I don't get this. The downtube doesn't look drastically narrower than many other bikes out there. Of course I haven't seen it live but it doesn't look like those old aero bikes where it's a complete aerofoil that then has bottle mounts.
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Lina
- Posts: 1146
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm
by Lina on Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:06 am
Knightyboy27 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:46 am
Lina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:48 am
Knightyboy27 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:46 pm
hannawald wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:52 am
Probably that the down tube is not wide enough to cover a bottle from the air.
Exactly. Big brands have done a lot of engineering/marketing to show that designing for real world use, which includes modelling for a water bottle on the down tube, is more beneficial to aerodynamics (the BMCs and Pinarello Dogma are obvious examples), yet these tube shapes look very old school and disregard the bottle mounts as almost afterthoughts.
Not sure whether Tour magazine actually measure with bottles in place or not.
I don't get this. The downtube doesn't look drastically narrower than many other bikes out there. Of course I haven't seen it live but it doesn't look like those old aero bikes where it's a complete aerofoil that then has bottle mounts.
The FCR isn't supposed to be one of their "race" bikes. It's an endurance model and as such aero isn't as important for them on it. Look at the race models and you'll see downtubes similar to any other race bike.
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Erlandal
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:36 am
by Erlandal on Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:39 pm
Lina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:06 am
Knightyboy27 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:46 am
Lina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:48 am
Knightyboy27 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:46 pm
Exactly. Big brands have done a lot of engineering/marketing to show that designing for real world use, which includes modelling for a water bottle on the down tube, is more beneficial to aerodynamics (the BMCs and Pinarello Dogma are obvious examples), yet these tube shapes look very old school and disregard the bottle mounts as almost afterthoughts.
Not sure whether Tour magazine actually measure with bottles in place or not.
I don't get this. The downtube doesn't look drastically narrower than many other bikes out there. Of course I haven't seen it live but it doesn't look like those old aero bikes where it's a complete aerofoil that then has bottle mounts.
The FCR isn't supposed to be one of their "race" bikes. It's an endurance model and as such aero isn't as important for them on it. Look at the race models and you'll see downtubes similar to any other race bike.
On the contrary, the FCR is meant to be the extra stiff, aero model. The RCR is the racy all-rounder. The NCR is the endurance model.
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Lina
- Posts: 1146
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm
by Lina on Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:47 pm
Erlandal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:39 pm
Lina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:06 am
The FCR isn't supposed to be one of their "race" bikes. It's an endurance model and as such aero isn't as important for them on it. Look at the race models and you'll see downtubes similar to any other race bike.
On the contrary, the FCR is meant to be the extra stiff, aero model. The RCR is the racy all-rounder. The NCR is the endurance model.
I can guarantee to you that if the rumours about Van Rysel sponsoring AG2R are true they will not be riding the FCR at all. It's all the RCR or the TT/Tri bike. I don't even get what is the purpose behind the FCR model to be honest with you. They've made it clear that the RCR is the road racing bike.
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Erlandal
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:36 am
by Erlandal on Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:04 pm
Lina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:47 pm
Erlandal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:39 pm
Lina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:06 am
The FCR isn't supposed to be one of their "race" bikes. It's an endurance model and as such aero isn't as important for them on it. Look at the race models and you'll see downtubes similar to any other race bike.
On the contrary, the FCR is meant to be the extra stiff, aero model. The RCR is the racy all-rounder. The NCR is the endurance model.
I can guarantee to you that if the rumours about Van Rysel sponsoring AG2R are true they will not be riding the FCR at all. It's all the RCR or the TT/Tri bike. I don't even get what is the purpose behind the FCR model to be honest with you. They've made it clear that the RCR is the road racing bike.
I know all of that, I work for Decathlon as a mechanic and a mechanics tutor and I've had direct contact and info with people involved in the Van Rysel team.
I never said the FCR would be used by the pros, but it is nonetheless meant to be the aero bike of the brand. It's even been branded as a TT bike alternative for those who don't want to buy the future XCR and/or don't have access to it.
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bsharp77
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:52 am
- Location: N.Ireland
by bsharp77 on Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:24 pm
Erlandal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:04 pm
I know all of that, I work for Decathlon as a mechanic and a mechanics tutor and I've had direct contact and info with people involved in the Van Rysel team.
I never said the FCR would be used by the pros, but it is nonetheless meant to be the aero bike of the brand. It's even been branded as a TT bike alternative for those who don't want to buy the future XCR and/or don't have access to it.
Thank you for the info Erlandal.
The FCR is shaping up to be a very interesting proposition - cant wait for the release and some real world reviews.
It looks like being a real competitor against the Propel/ Aeroad, especially given the price and specs that have been listed.
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blaugrana
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm
by blaugrana on Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:06 pm
BigBoyND wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:11 am
blaugrana wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:22 pm
I thought the same thing. Canyon is still often referred as a great value option, but it's nothing like it used to be....Now it seems that anything
slightly below Specialized prices can be considered cheap.
Canyon Ultimate CFR Red eTap with 353 NSW wheels: 11,000€
Specialized SL7 Red eTap with Roval wheels: 14,500€
It's 3,500€ less and comes with more expensive wheels. That's over 30% price difference. Not sure why you would say that's only slightly less.
But with bikes that you buy through traditional bike shops you can negotiate the price down a bit. Might be a bit country dependant, but I've always had at leat 10% discount on new bikes, even on shops where I had never bought anything before. Maybe this wasn't the case during the pandemic shortage, but I'm pretty sure it's back to normal now.
Then you are looking at about a 20% difference max, which isn't massive, and it doesn't change the target market of the bike that much. It's not nothing, but they are not selling frames at half the price of the competition like they used to.
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bsharp77
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:52 am
- Location: N.Ireland
by bsharp77 on Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:27 pm
blaugrana wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:06 pm
BigBoyND wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:11 am
blaugrana wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:22 pm
I thought the same thing. Canyon is still often referred as a great value option, but it's nothing like it used to be....Now it seems that anything
slightly below Specialized prices can be considered cheap.
Canyon Ultimate CFR Red eTap with 353 NSW wheels: 11,000€
Specialized SL7 Red eTap with Roval wheels: 14,500€
It's 3,500€ less and comes with more expensive wheels. That's over 30% price difference. Not sure why you would say that's only slightly less.
But with bikes that you buy through traditional bike shops you can negotiate the price down a bit. Might be a bit country dependant, but I've always had at leat 10% discount on new bikes, even on shops where I had never bought anything before. Maybe this wasn't the case during the pandemic shortage, but I'm pretty sure it's back to normal now.
Then you are looking at about a 20% difference max, which isn't massive, and it doesn't change the target market of the bike that much. It's not nothing, but they are not selling frames at half the price of the competition like they used to.
The overall point here is that this looks like being incredible value and also looks like a very good bike.
Any debate into Canyon's value for money against Specialized or anyone else should be kept for another thread.