What is the best integrated steerer system?
Moderator: robbosmans
Thinking particularly of criteria like safety, use of non-proprietary standards and maintainability (but may be others I am not thinking of).
Looking at bike brands that are changing the way they do it during new models (e.g. Supersix Evo 3 vs 4), it seems they cannot make up their minds either.
Looking at bike brands that are changing the way they do it during new models (e.g. Supersix Evo 3 vs 4), it seems they cannot make up their minds either.
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Any implementation that uses a round steerer…at the expense of needing an hourglass shape to the HT for bigger bearings.
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Best, or least bad?
Until Chris King expands the Aeroset that Enve seem to have exclusive access to, Deda's DCR system seems to be the one that is the most sorted.
Until Chris King expands the Aeroset that Enve seem to have exclusive access to, Deda's DCR system seems to be the one that is the most sorted.
Why though? Safety?TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:24 pmAny implementation that uses a round steerer…at the expense of needing an hourglass shape to the HT for bigger bearings.
It's interesting the some have moved from non-round to round (e.g. Colnago) and others have moved from round to non-round (e.g Cannondale).
Because everything. We've seen pretty much everyone with non round designs have problems with their steerers. Factor is on what, 4th design of their Ostro steerer now? You bring in a whole host of issues you have to deal with that would've all been prevented if you just used a round steerer and oversized bearings. It's not invented here syndrome at its best/worst. Round steerer + oversized bearing is such a simple solution to a problem. Anything else is overcomplicating things.chris1234 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:51 pmWhy though? Safety?TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:24 pmAny implementation that uses a round steerer…at the expense of needing an hourglass shape to the HT for bigger bearings.
It's interesting the some have moved from non-round to round (e.g. Colnago) and others have moved from round to non-round (e.g Cannondale).
With Cannondale you have to take into account that while yes, they did move to non-round, they started with one of the most idiotic designs and had self destructing headtubes. So they were forced to change the design. While the current Cannondale design is better than what they started with, an even better solution would've been a round steerer with an oversized bearing.
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Specialized’s SL7 issue was specifically the fault of that specific split-ring. The Venge had a slightly different split ring with no issues. Trek’s Madone and Emonda use flat-sided steerers which haven’t had issues while the new Domane uses a round steerer. Non-round implementations can work, but they have to be overbuilt. Nothing is as strong or stiff as a circle in all directions while using the same amount of structural material.
I agree with DCR being the least problematic. FSA’s ACR if the front brake isn’t routed into the steerer is fine as well.
Deda DCR gets my vote. Nylon compression ring thats double depth compared to other systems. Its also undersized a little so you get a tight fit around the steerer and there is also a very secure way of preventing that ring from moving against the steerer. Also uses standard size bearings. Well used system for which I have heard of no failures too.
Token cable box system also seems pretty nice. No22 uses their system for internal routing. I know it also uses a composite spacer and I beleive, standard size bearings.
FSA ACR, I dont like because of the use of the alloy compression ring. It doesnt grip the steerer as tightly and the pin based retention system to prevent rotation against the steerer isnt as deep so seems more likely to move if there is minor loss of preload. It theoretically seems vulnerable to the same mode of failure as the Specialized system. However, in practice this is one of the most used systems and as far as I know has a very good track record. I dont mind routing through the top of the steerer, its a pain in the ass from a fit perspective but is also one less hose to fit into the head tube which is already a pretty tight space. Also, one less hole on the steerer.
Acros system used by Canyon and Focus is nice too with an extra seal and composite compression ring, but uses a special top bearing with a 42mm ID.
Chris King Aeroset / Enve. While i am sure you could make it compatible beyond enve with some 3D printing, no idea on bearing size and they are frighteningly expensive.
As far as OEM specific non-round systems, i think Look and the new Cannondale system seem ok; but would much rather stick with a round steerer since the above systems are all available.
Token cable box system also seems pretty nice. No22 uses their system for internal routing. I know it also uses a composite spacer and I beleive, standard size bearings.
FSA ACR, I dont like because of the use of the alloy compression ring. It doesnt grip the steerer as tightly and the pin based retention system to prevent rotation against the steerer isnt as deep so seems more likely to move if there is minor loss of preload. It theoretically seems vulnerable to the same mode of failure as the Specialized system. However, in practice this is one of the most used systems and as far as I know has a very good track record. I dont mind routing through the top of the steerer, its a pain in the ass from a fit perspective but is also one less hose to fit into the head tube which is already a pretty tight space. Also, one less hole on the steerer.
Acros system used by Canyon and Focus is nice too with an extra seal and composite compression ring, but uses a special top bearing with a 42mm ID.
Chris King Aeroset / Enve. While i am sure you could make it compatible beyond enve with some 3D printing, no idea on bearing size and they are frighteningly expensive.
As far as OEM specific non-round systems, i think Look and the new Cannondale system seem ok; but would much rather stick with a round steerer since the above systems are all available.
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In fairness to Factor though, they don't seem to have had any issues since the initial redesign, and subsequent versions seem to have been more of a refinement (perhaps for making things simpler in manufacturing) vs because of any safety risks.Lina wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:09 pmBecause everything. We've seen pretty much everyone with non round designs have problems with their steerers. Factor is on what, 4th design of their Ostro steerer now? You bring in a whole host of issues you have to deal with that would've all been prevented if you just used a round steerer and oversized bearings. It's not invented here syndrome at its best/worst. Round steerer + oversized bearing is such a simple solution to a problem. Anything else is overcomplicating things.chris1234 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:51 pmWhy though? Safety?TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:24 pmAny implementation that uses a round steerer…at the expense of needing an hourglass shape to the HT for bigger bearings.
It's interesting the some have moved from non-round to round (e.g. Colnago) and others have moved from round to non-round (e.g Cannondale).
With Cannondale you have to take into account that while yes, they did move to non-round, they started with one of the most idiotic designs and had self destructing headtubes. So they were forced to change the design. While the current Cannondale design is better than what they started with, an even better solution would've been a round steerer with an oversized bearing.
They were also the first to use the ceramic speed SLT headset (which colnago has more recently also adopted), and which should mean that the headset / integrated setup needs less maintenance. I have only had mine since august of last year and barely used it so far so I guess we'll see, but from what I've reads it seems like a good setup.
Worth noting that on the Ostro Gravel they went for a round steerer though - whether that's to signal a move to round designs across their future models, or just to cater for the higher stresses of gravel riding, we'll know for sure only when they launch a new Ostro / O2 VAM.Conradsleight wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:08 amIn fairness to Factor though, they don't seem to have had any issues since the initial redesign, and subsequent versions seem to have been more of a refinement (perhaps for making things simpler in manufacturing) vs because of any safety risks.Lina wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:09 pmBecause everything. We've seen pretty much everyone with non round designs have problems with their steerers. Factor is on what, 4th design of their Ostro steerer now? You bring in a whole host of issues you have to deal with that would've all been prevented if you just used a round steerer and oversized bearings. It's not invented here syndrome at its best/worst. Round steerer + oversized bearing is such a simple solution to a problem. Anything else is overcomplicating things.chris1234 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:51 pmWhy though? Safety?TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:24 pmAny implementation that uses a round steerer…at the expense of needing an hourglass shape to the HT for bigger bearings.
It's interesting the some have moved from non-round to round (e.g. Colnago) and others have moved from round to non-round (e.g Cannondale).
With Cannondale you have to take into account that while yes, they did move to non-round, they started with one of the most idiotic designs and had self destructing headtubes. So they were forced to change the design. While the current Cannondale design is better than what they started with, an even better solution would've been a round steerer with an oversized bearing.
They were also the first to use the ceramic speed SLT headset (which colnago has more recently also adopted), and which should mean that the headset / integrated setup needs less maintenance. I have only had mine since august of last year and barely used it so far so I guess we'll see, but from what I've reads it seems like a good setup.
I am by no means an expert but the SL7 post recall still sticks out to me as one of the better options
Round steerer that is not a proprietary size
Doesn't need an aftermarket system
Aren't most bikes that use ACR limited to ACR? Can the latest Colnago use any off the shelf stem?
I suppose the Cannondale is pretty good right now but who knows what that delta design could do long term
Round steerer that is not a proprietary size
Doesn't need an aftermarket system
Aren't most bikes that use ACR limited to ACR? Can the latest Colnago use any off the shelf stem?
I suppose the Cannondale is pretty good right now but who knows what that delta design could do long term
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