Lightest 12s Disc groupset in 2023

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nickf
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

Growtac mechanical calipers are where it's at. Lighter and gobs of power, 270g for the pair. They work very well with my red22 shifters.

https://velo-orange.com/products/growta ... flat-mount

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jih
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:54 pm

by jih

nickf wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:44 pm
Growtac mechanical calipers are where it's at. Lighter and gobs of power, 270g for the pair. They work very well with my red22 shifters.

https://velo-orange.com/products/growta ... flat-mount
They look interesting but at $350 for a pair, I'd need to be more than curious to give them a try. What are they doing that allows them to compare to hydraulic piston actuation without any hydraulics?

EDIT: Looks like it is single piston, so they're relying on one piston pushing the rotor over to rub on the other one (like the old Avid BB7s) - hard to see this comparing to a dual piston setup. I have BB7s still on one of my bikes and they're good, but not comparable to newer fully hydro setups like Shimano 12s, or semi-hydro setups like Juin.

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nickf
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

jih wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:39 pm
nickf wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:44 pm
Growtac mechanical calipers are where it's at. Lighter and gobs of power, 270g for the pair. They work very well with my red22 shifters.

https://velo-orange.com/products/growta ... flat-mount
They look interesting but at $350 for a pair, I'd need to be more than curious to give them a try. What are they doing that allows them to compare to hydraulic piston actuation without any hydraulics?

EDIT: Looks like it is single piston, so they're relying on one piston pushing the rotor over to rub on the other one (like the old Avid BB7s) - hard to see this comparing to a dual piston setup. I have BB7s still on one of my bikes and they're good, but not comparable to newer fully hydro setups like Shimano 12s, or semi-hydro setups like Juin.
Gotta catch them on sale. These are leads and bounds better then BB7s and even better then juin tech f1s. Whatever design they use internally on these calipers they deliver more then enough power. The tires are the limiting factor when braking. I'm running a 160mm front rotor and 140 out back.

CampagYOLO
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

nickf wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:55 pm
jih wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:39 pm
nickf wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:44 pm
Growtac mechanical calipers are where it's at. Lighter and gobs of power, 270g for the pair. They work very well with my red22 shifters.

https://velo-orange.com/products/growta ... flat-mount
They look interesting but at $350 for a pair, I'd need to be more than curious to give them a try. What are they doing that allows them to compare to hydraulic piston actuation without any hydraulics?

EDIT: Looks like it is single piston, so they're relying on one piston pushing the rotor over to rub on the other one (like the old Avid BB7s) - hard to see this comparing to a dual piston setup. I have BB7s still on one of my bikes and they're good, but not comparable to newer fully hydro setups like Shimano 12s, or semi-hydro setups like Juin.
Gotta catch them on sale. These are leads and bounds better then BB7s and even better then juin tech f1s. Whatever design they use internally on these calipers they deliver more then enough power. The tires are the limiting factor when braking. I'm running a 160mm front rotor and 140 out back.
I'm really interested in the Growtac calipers. Is there much in the way of modulation with them? With other mechanical calipers I've used this is one of several areas they fall behind hydraulics.

someGuy
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:45 pm

by someGuy

Hey! How does the SRAM red 22 hrd's braking performance stack up against modern hydraulic ones?

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nickf
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

CampagYOLO wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:12 pm
nickf wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:55 pm
jih wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:39 pm
nickf wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:44 pm
Growtac mechanical calipers are where it's at. Lighter and gobs of power, 270g for the pair. They work very well with my red22 shifters.

https://velo-orange.com/products/growta ... flat-mount
They look interesting but at $350 for a pair, I'd need to be more than curious to give them a try. What are they doing that allows them to compare to hydraulic piston actuation without any hydraulics?

EDIT: Looks like it is single piston, so they're relying on one piston pushing the rotor over to rub on the other one (like the old Avid BB7s) - hard to see this comparing to a dual piston setup. I have BB7s still on one of my bikes and they're good, but not comparable to newer fully hydro setups like Shimano 12s, or semi-hydro setups like Juin.
Gotta catch them on sale. These are leads and bounds better then BB7s and even better then juin tech f1s. Whatever design they use internally on these calipers they deliver more then enough power. The tires are the limiting factor when braking. I'm running a 160mm front rotor and 140 out back.
I'm really interested in the Growtac calipers. Is there much in the way of modulation with them? With other mechanical calipers I've used this is one of several areas they fall behind hydraulics.
They provide excellent power and modulation. I'm not just a fanboy, they just work. Again the tire is the limiting factor, not the braking power. I also like how I can dial in the lever pull. Hydro particularly Shimano you are just stuck with whatever lever pull they give you, many times uneven lever pull. Had to re-bleed so many systems for customer bikes to get them close to being equal.

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xsnailx
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:36 pm
Location: Poland
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by xsnailx

I have a prototype shimano 12s compatible ratio rachet on the way, i plan to run it along with red shifters, rim brakes and a xx rear derralieur and at the beggining shimano casette (11-34) and chain. if it will work fine i plan to move to recon 11-34 casette next.

someGuy
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:45 pm

by someGuy

PyotrGhimme wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:37 am
Mr.Gib wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:35 pm
Maddie wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:21 pm
You can use Ratio with 2x and your normal 11s Red mechanical rear derailleur
Hexsense wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:51 pm
Sram 22 shifters with right side converted.
Gearloop 44/28 front chainrings, 2x. -- this is for a gravel bike. If you use road bike then keep regular 50/34 or 52/36.
Shimano GRX Front derailleur in my case to cope with the 44/28 front rings. (yes, it works with Sram left shifter too)
Ultegra 12 speed 11-30 cassette. -- 11-34 would work too.
Sram long cage 11 speed road rd.

Find me a lighter groupset with tighter gearing...
Definitely a nice gravel setup, but I do wonder about the performance of the regular Red medium cage rd on cassettes with cogs bigger than 32. I know it can be done, but any time I have tried to push rear derailleurs beyond the recommend largest cog, I end up with some spot on the cassette that hesitates to shift, or a ticking noise in certain gears. I can tune it out of one spot, but it will reappear in another. Have you had perfect operation with a 34 tooth cassette? I will however give a strong vote for the Sram mtb rear derailleurs. I have one Red 22 setup with 11-36 and a XX long cage rd. Flawless shifting and still very light. Now impossible to find, but lower level compatible Sram mtb rd's are still around.
Yes do agree with you. It would be the lightest option for gravel to go with
Xx1 11speed mtb der (240) with pulley replaced (10g off)
Ratio cable fin
Sram red 22 hydro shifter
12 cassette
[/quote]

is guess the 10-speed xx rd does not cover the necessary distance (12sp cassette is 41.2mm wide vs 10sp 37.2mm)? or is there some wiggle room?

StiffWeenies
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm

by StiffWeenies

YBN 12s Ti chain
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Sock3t
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:20 am

by Sock3t

yinzerniner wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 5:42 am
markdjr wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:58 am
Anyone know of a creative way to get a mineral oil hydraulic lever working with a 12 speed rear derailleur? I'm flexible with component spec (beggars can't be choosers), but ideal setup would be Dura Ace levers with a XTR or Eagle rear derailleur.
Pretty sure ratio tech has a shimano 12s mechanical conversion kit. It's not on their site but they'll sell it if you contact them directly. Someone here already did the conversion and said it works well.
Interested in this; they had previously said they wouldn't bother.

DHG01
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

someGuy wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:58 am
Hey! How does the SRAM red 22 hrd's braking performance stack up against modern hydraulic ones?
I am not a big fan of disc brakes; but I do have these on a CX bike. Braking, for that a gravel type riding, is fine 140 mm rotors front and rear. Brake rub is not too bad.

markdjr
Posts: 250
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:21 pm

by markdjr

I reached out to Ratio about a kit for Shimano levers and they basically said it was too complicated to be a viable consumer solution. It sounds like they may be doing a ratchet for SRAM levers to Shimano derailleur, but this doesn't seem like a benefit to me as I'd rather run Eagle than XTR RD.

Sock3t
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:20 am

by Sock3t

markdjr wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 4:38 pm
I reached out to Ratio about a kit for Shimano levers and they basically said it was too complicated to be a viable consumer solution. It sounds like they may be doing a ratchet for SRAM levers to Shimano derailleur, but this doesn't seem like a benefit to me as I'd rather run Eagle than XTR RD.
Yeah, same for me. I can't get away with a sram front derailleur (nor would I want to, either) by going with that setup. I'll continue with my mechanical 9120; it's still brilliant.

Sock3t
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:20 am

by Sock3t

So the question remains; can a new R7120 shifter control and older 9100 derailleur with a 12 cog cassette?

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jeanjacques
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:01 am
Location: France

by jeanjacques

Sock3t wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 6:08 am
So the question remains; can a new R7120 shifter control and older 9100 derailleur with a 12 cog cassette?
Hello, did you find an answer ?

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