Thinking of Sizing down my Ti frame. Thoughts?

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RyanG
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:48 pm

by RyanG

Hey Guys! I have a Ti Reilly T325 in their size Medium (55cm). Comparing to my Canyon Ultimate (small/54), I don't love how it rides/handles. It's been tough for me to pinpoint why with all the factors in geometry. I have been thinking of sizing down the Reilly to their small (53cm). Considering I love the Canyon's handling I've been comparing geometry. The reach on the 53cm Reilly is 11mm less, but could match the Canyons with appropriate stem. I notice the Reilly would have 10.1mm less front center and 19mm less wheelbase length. That difference is my main concern, any thoughts? Concerned it would feel less stable. I think the Reilly partly feels big and "boat like" because the seat tube is 16mm taller. I feel confident in all ways on the Canyon and am wondering if this smaller Reilly would better mimic that. Below is the geometry link comparing my current Canyon and the Reilly I'm considering sizing down to. Any thoughts about how they'd compare? I'm 175cm tall, 81.5 inseam. Thanks all

https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geomet ... 0017190527,

apr46
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

On your current bikes, are they set up with the same stack and reach?

I.e., Are the bars and saddle in the same position relative to the bottom bracket?

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RyanG
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:48 pm

by RyanG

Actually had each fitted by different fitters. Reach is the same. Stack is lower on the Canyon. I could try less spacers on the Reilly. I knew the Reilly was slightly larger which I was ok with. Thinking it would be more comfortable for longer rides but I just feel much better on the Canyon.

apr46
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

Before buying a new bike, I would try and replicate the setup on the Reilly if you can. If you have the same tires on both bikes, you could literally stand the two bikes you have next to each other with the cranks lined up and then adjust the saddle and bars and get pretty close. Of course measuring would be better.

The same saddle and bars would help too for comparison's sake. See how that changes how you feel.

The seat tube being higher wont really change the handling of the bike but the placement of you on the bike will.

The Reilly should also handle quicker than the Canyon with its steeper HTA and shorter wheelbase. The lower trail should also make the Reilly feel more responsive to steering inputs.

RyanG
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:48 pm

by RyanG

Really appreciate your response. Fortunately they've been very receptive. Reilly offered just a $250 charge to swap my current medium to the small, even after months of riding. A price I'd surely be willing to pay. Just wouldn't want to get the small and feel it's even further from ideal. I will try your suggestion. Thing is, until getting to my current set up on both, they've each generally handled and rode the same. Fit was more a matter of getting me comfortable.

calv1n
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:27 am

by calv1n

I had a Reilly ti frame, pretty much the right size for me. It also felt very sluggish / boat-like / unresponsive compared with my Supersix. Not to slam Reilly but I wouldn’t be surprised is the smaller size felt similar to you too. I wonder how much effort has gone into the frame design / welding to encourage a sprightly, responsive bike. I now have an old Litespeed Firenze; quite a bit racier / springier, but still not the alive-ness of a modern carbon race frame.

RyanG
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:48 pm

by RyanG

@calv1n interesting. There's are some aspects of it I love but I agree with you on the others. I think at this point I'll likely end up going a size down and hopefully it'll be easier to handle and I'll like it more. If not I'll likely sell and try a different bike

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

My feeling to riding a ti/ carbon bike. It couldn't near my current bike talking nimbleness and ride feel.
They weren't very balanced either, stiffer in the rear than in the front.
Have contemplated a metal frame a few times, but i am scared i will do a mistake trying that route again.
Perhaps a smaller tube diameter and a sized down frame. Not sure. Talked to a guy here which was very much into metal bikes.
But he says the carbon bikes pull away as they're stiffer.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

baldy
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:01 pm

by baldy

I have a Reilly T325D in small. I'm 175cm with an 81cm inseam, 70kg, and the fit is fine for me. I can't say the bike feels "boat like" to me, but I run 25mm tyres, so perhaps a different feel from that. Its all subjective I suppose. Ti definately has a different feel to carbon for sure, so it's really comparing apples with oranges to me. To me, if you can get the same position as your Canyon, I would get the small. Slightly lighter and I assume slightly more rigid. As an aside, I also have a T640 rim brake, and it does feel a little snappier than the T325D, but the chainstays are a little shorter, which may help, and its a good 1kg lighter.

wickedstealthy
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:16 pm

by wickedstealthy

RyanG wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:16 am
Hey Guys! I have a Ti Reilly T325 in their size Medium (55cm). Comparing to my Canyon Ultimate (small/54), I don't love how it rides/handles. It's been tough for me to pinpoint why with all the factors in geometry. I have been thinking of sizing down the Reilly to their small (53cm). Considering I love the Canyon's handling I've been comparing geometry. The reach on the 53cm Reilly is 11mm less, but could match the Canyons with appropriate stem. I notice the Reilly would have 10.1mm less front center and 19mm less wheelbase length. That difference is my main concern, any thoughts? Concerned it would feel less stable. I think the Reilly partly feels big and "boat like" because the seat tube is 16mm taller. I feel confident in all ways on the Canyon and am wondering if this smaller Reilly would better mimic that. Below is the geometry link comparing my current Canyon and the Reilly I'm considering sizing down to. Any thoughts about how they'd compare? I'm 175cm tall, 81.5 inseam. Thanks all

https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geomet ... 0017190527,
That doesnt say much. How many spacers are you running on both bikes ? The caynon typically comes with a 90mm stem on size S. While a M bike typically comes with a 100mm stem. Do you run the same handlebars ? Cayon has typically a 70/75mm reach bar etc ...
Also because the Cayon has 20mm lower stack means that your effective reach on the Reilly is -6mm as each 10mm spacer roughly is -3mm reach. So riding a low stack bike and fitting 20mm more spacers is effectively a frame that has -6mm less reach.
Further if you have your shifters tilted means your decreasing your drop and your reach and that goes pretty quick.

So if you have say a 80mm bar on your Reilly and them setup at the same handlebar handlebar height means that your reach is already 5-6mm shorter then your canyon. And if you run a 100mm stem it would mean that your effective reach is is already 15mm longer on your Reilly and so it can feel boatlike.
Or if you have your saddle positioned slightly more backward it becomes even worse ...

Im 177 and ride a V3rs size 52s and Canyon Endurace (older model) medium. Due to the higher stack the effective reach of both bikes is more or less equal.

So start measuring your saddle position on both bikes, top of the handlebar and effective distance between your saddle and some reference point on your shifters. You could be surprised how different they are ...

RyanG
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:48 pm

by RyanG

baldy wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:49 am
I have a Reilly T325D in small. I'm 175cm with an 81cm inseam, 70kg, and the fit is fine for me. I can't say the bike feels "boat like" to me, but I run 25mm tyres, so perhaps a different feel from that. Its all subjective I suppose. Ti definately has a different feel to carbon for sure, so it's really comparing apples with oranges to me. To me, if you can get the same position as your Canyon, I would get the small. Slightly lighter and I assume slightly more rigid. As an aside, I also have a T640 rim brake, and it does feel a little snappier than the T325D, but the chainstays are a little shorter, which may help, and its a good 1kg lighter.
Oh wow we've got the exact measurements. Yea I'm going to go down to the small at this point. Thanks for the input

jadedaid
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:43 pm

by jadedaid

I like my metal bikes, but have found them to be more hit and miss than my carbon bikes. Some bikes cannot be made to ride right for you. Fit is one thing, but if there can be a number of other factors (geometry, stiffness, center of gravity, etc) which affect the ride. After a while you end up spending too much time trying to tinker with the bike than enjoying it. If you're on stem number 3, seatpost number 2, just let it go. Not worth the mental energy.

On the two bikes, the front center on the Reily is quite a bit different. I'd worry about twitchness if the Canyon is great for you.

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

RyanG wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:16 am
Any thoughts about how they'd compare? I'm 175cm tall, 81.5 inseam. Thanks all

https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geomet ... 0017190527,
You are square in the middle of Reilly's size guide for a medium. Looking at your geometry comparison, it appeas that the Reilly Medium is the closest match for your Canyon Ultimate.

Unless you are having a fit issue (like can't get the stem low enough) on the current frame I wouldn't downsize. My guess is that after you spend all the time and effort to downside and match your position on a small, you are going to end up with the same problem.

You love the feel of the Ultimate. The Reilly is just never ever going to get there. It doesn't mean that one can't ride fast on a Reilly. It just means it will feel different from other bikes.

I've had bikes that "felt" magically fast. I've had bikes that "felt" dead and slow. I wasn't actually faster or slower; the bikes just felt that way. I think fast feeling bikes have a springiness to them. Usually the magically fast feeling of a new bike goes away because you get used to it. But you are constantly reminded of it by switching back and forth between your two bikes.

wilwil
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Its more the difference between carbon and ti. I recently bought a ti disc frame and have been quite dissapointed. The geo matches my C64 but the ride is dead in comparison and slower. My Pegorreti steel bike on the other hand feels much more alive. Ive come to the conclusion carbon is the best material to make bike frames.

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