Who do you trust?

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robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

spdntrxi wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:29 am
Cam is unwatchable to me.
Total shill.

*and* totally unwatchable.

by Weenie


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Ytse
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu May 05, 2022 11:53 am

by Ytse

angryasian wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:44 am
spartan wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:32 am
what cyclingtips and most of the legacy bike journalists need to clarify is what products they choose to review? process they follow. be honest.

why has cyclingtips never reviewed top chinese brands (winspace/lightbicycle/farsports). do you only review products that are advertised on outside media sites?

hottest product we want james to test in 2023 is .. L TWOO RX Hydraulic Groupset.
It's not like it's some big process conducted in secrecy.

Bigger brands typically have marketing departments that actively reach out to publications (myself and CT included) when they have something new they're interested in having reviewed, but otherwise, it's us/me doing the soliciting when there's something interesting that seems worth reviewing. In regards to smaller brands, we've asked many of these companies in the past if they'd be willing to send loaner samples for review, and we often don't get responses at all. I don't think it's because they're specifically shunning us, but rather the fact most of these brands either just don't feel they need or want the visibility, or their business model relies more on word of mouth. Another factor is many of these smaller brands simply don't make it obvious who we're even supposed to contact about stuff like this, so oftentimes our inquiries are sent to the general mailbox where they presumably get buried.
Spot on. And also, what I'd like to highlight here is a common misconception here or there about product reviews. Now, as a former journalist (tech industry), I have seen this from the inside as well. Large brands are considered large also because they spend on PR, marketing, press relations, media events, send out samples to media outlets to review, have their people available for interviews or just to respond to media inquiries and tech questions, etc. Smaller brands often don't, and this can be a reason why their product is cheaper at the end, because running such an operation costs a ton of money (just imagine the cost of running and maintaining a fleet of high end bike for review purposes and shipping them around the world to media outlets). The choice - whether to spend on media relations and how much to spend - is made by vendors and has many consequences when it comes to brand recognition and consumer trust.

So when you see your preferred media outlet review the latest Trek, Spesh, Giant, Canyon, etc bike, but don't see an article about something else, it's not because XYZ brand has "bought" that media outlet, but more because these companies dedicate resources to maintain media relations. Trust me, a tech journalist enjoys trying and testing and reviewing stuff, and I'm pretty sure, we'd have many more reviews if there were more sample products available.
2020 Scott Addict RC / 2021 Trek Emonda SLR / 2023 Specialized Tarmac SL8

ronanmclaughlin
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:04 pm
Contact:

by ronanmclaughlin

Seeing my name and the positive comments in this thread is massive as a long-time WW. Thank you.

In addition to what James already said about how we choose what to review, I will add that during my time with CT I was encouraged to cover (be that reviews, news pieces, opinion pieces, etc) anything and everything I found interesting, with the possible exception of time trial bike reviews :) but even then, I did get to cover more TT tech.

As for what I can or cannot say in a review, or any o/Outside influence on my work, there was only really one rule - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
As for everything else, I just had to write what I feel. The good, the bad, just not the ugly... unless it's the Bianchi Arcadex.

The only real limitation/restriction on my review work was sheer time. I always try to be as thorough as possible, but that takes time. I'd love to cover everything under the sun, but often there is already too much on my desk.

blaugrana
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm

by blaugrana

tomato wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:20 am
Ytse wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:16 pm
When it comes to buying a new bike, frame, wheels, groupset or basically anything cycling related, most of us are flying blind, as there is no way to try, test and evaulate them.
They have these places called "bike shops", where you can try, test, and evaluate bikes, wheels, and groupsets.
This will surely vary a lot based on what country you live in, but being able to try bikes at bike shops is definitely not something universal. I've personally only been able to try before buying with two bikes that were second hand, and I knew the shop owner well, but everything else I have had to buy blind (doing a lot of research on the bike geometry, of course).

I do know that some brands like Canyon and Decathlon have a "no questions asked" return period, which could be seen as an extended test ride, but these aren't sold at traditional bike shops anyway.

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C36
Posts: 2471
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

I do not pay enough attention to who write what I read to have my trust-list but overall feeling (would need to dig more for examples) is that little effort is made to challenge the marketing claims. It obviously need to have a strong tech background and possible you are only facing a PR guy that wouldn’t be able to answer tech questions.

tomato
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:37 pm

by tomato

blaugrana wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:52 pm
tomato wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:20 am
Ytse wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:16 pm
When it comes to buying a new bike, frame, wheels, groupset or basically anything cycling related, most of us are flying blind, as there is no way to try, test and evaulate them.
They have these places called "bike shops", where you can try, test, and evaluate bikes, wheels, and groupsets.
This will surely vary a lot based on what country you live in, but being able to try bikes at bike shops is definitely not something universal.
Can you give some examples of countires where bike shops don't allow you to test ride a bike?

blaugrana
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm

by blaugrana

tomato wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:39 pm
blaugrana wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:52 pm
tomato wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:20 am
Ytse wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:16 pm
When it comes to buying a new bike, frame, wheels, groupset or basically anything cycling related, most of us are flying blind, as there is no way to try, test and evaulate them.
They have these places called "bike shops", where you can try, test, and evaluate bikes, wheels, and groupsets.
This will surely vary a lot based on what country you live in, but being able to try bikes at bike shops is definitely not something universal.
Can you give some examples of countires where bike shops don't allow you to test ride a bike?
In Spain it is definitely not the norm. Maybe you can find some that do, on specific models, but I seriously doubt you will be able to walk in an test ride a 15.000€ Colnago. Most people just order the bike they want on the size they need and hope everything will be OK.

rudye9mr
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

Imma shout out vegan cyclist for helping folks out by sharing his journey and showing how much of a struggle it can be getting training in with a family to care for...

wilwil
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

tomato wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:20 am
Ytse wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:16 pm
When it comes to buying a new bike, frame, wheels, groupset or basically anything cycling related, most of us are flying blind, as there is no way to try, test and evaulate them.
They have these places called "bike shops", where you can try, test, and evaluate bikes, wheels, and groupsets.
What bike shops do you go to? They can't carry a stock of every size, of every make. And how can you test specific wheels and groupsets?

stevesbike
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:33 pm

by stevesbike

tomato wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:39 pm
blaugrana wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:52 pm
tomato wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:20 am
Ytse wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:16 pm
When it comes to buying a new bike, frame, wheels, groupset or basically anything cycling related, most of us are flying blind, as there is no way to try, test and evaulate them.
They have these places called "bike shops", where you can try, test, and evaluate bikes, wheels, and groupsets.
This will surely vary a lot based on what country you live in, but being able to try bikes at bike shops is definitely not something universal.
Can you give some examples of countires where bike shops don't allow you to test ride a bike?
It's been shown both for bike and auto sales that the typical 'test drive' is not informative and often leads to a worse decision process. Physically interacting with a bike (or car) both increases the willingness to pay (more) and induces a loss aversion bias. Dealerships love it because it helps close the deal. It leads to more irrational decision-making.

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mortirolo
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:08 am
Location: EU

by mortirolo

Cool Tool Tuesday on CT, I mean Dave Rome.
Marco Pantani - Momenti Di Gloria
AX Vial (SR11) <- FELT FC (Record 10) <- LOOK KX (Dura-Ace) <- Specialized EPIC (Superbe Pro)

tomato
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:37 pm

by tomato

wilwil wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:27 pm
tomato wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:20 am
Ytse wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:16 pm
When it comes to buying a new bike, frame, wheels, groupset or basically anything cycling related, most of us are flying blind, as there is no way to try, test and evaulate them.
They have these places called "bike shops", where you can try, test, and evaluate bikes, wheels, and groupsets.
What bike shops do you go to?
I go to a lot of bike shops, depending on what bike I'm interested in.

Ytse
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu May 05, 2022 11:53 am

by Ytse

tomato wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 8:41 pm
wilwil wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:27 pm
tomato wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:20 am
Ytse wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:16 pm
When it comes to buying a new bike, frame, wheels, groupset or basically anything cycling related, most of us are flying blind, as there is no way to try, test and evaulate them.
They have these places called "bike shops", where you can try, test, and evaluate bikes, wheels, and groupsets.
What bike shops do you go to?
I go to a lot of bike shops, depending on what bike I'm interested in.
You are a lucky person living in a country / area where local bike shops are stuffed with test / demo units and let you try all of them. Unfortunately, where I live (Central Europe), bike shops tend to have limited in-stock availability, especially of the high-end models, which are usually only available on order.
2020 Scott Addict RC / 2021 Trek Emonda SLR / 2023 Specialized Tarmac SL8

apr46
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

angryasian wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:23 am
Just wanted to say thanks for the kind words here. I genuinely do try my best to be as complete, thorough, and fair as I can in my reviews, so it's good to hear that comes across on paper, too. And to be clear, I'm always open to criticism and suggestions for improvement. I may have been doing this for a while now, but I certainly don't assume I can't still get better.
Just wanted to say that the Low MK review was one of my favorite bike reviews ever. Came across as a judgement on the feel of the bike and its construction--things that it was clear you could evaluate.

apr46
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

As long as reviews flag potential conflicts and commercial arrangments up front, i am usually OK with any subjective statements they are making. When they try to make objective statements or present data without discussion of how they measured and their protocol I get pretty annoyed.

In that sense, I tend to really like either subjective reviews bike riders with a lot of experience (like the Cycling Tips crew) or clearly presented data / test protocols ike BRR and ZFC.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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