Weight Weenies

BigBoyND wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:48 am

Stendhal wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:20 pm

I wish I'd known about the Aerover, for some reason I'd never heard of it, but the Vision Metron I bought is not much heavier at 354 g actual, so yes I've saved from the Momo.

Is the Metron 5D ACR "Evo" a new model? It was at Taipei Cycle last week and I haven't heard of it before.

Found this pdf, which lists it as 320g in 110x420mm, very competitive. 45g lighter than the last version if you go my their listed weights.

https://www.visiontechusa.com/sites/def ... %20EVO.pdf

I think it is new. It's not on the regular Vision USA website and the markings are new.

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Stendhal wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:01 pm

BigBoyND wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:48 am

Stendhal wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:20 pm

I wish I'd known about the Aerover, for some reason I'd never heard of it, but the Vision Metron I bought is not much heavier at 354 g actual, so yes I've saved from the Momo.

Is the Metron 5D ACR "Evo" a new model? It was at Taipei Cycle last week and I haven't heard of it before.

Found this pdf, which lists it as 320g in 110x420mm, very competitive. 45g lighter than the last version if you go my their listed weights.

https://www.visiontechusa.com/sites/def ... %20EVO.pdf

I think it is new. It's not on the regular Vision USA website and the markings are new.

New yes, it's been spotted here and there on pro bikes this spring. Weight is nice but the sizes are a bit limited if you want narrow and long... although if I recall, FSA measures bars center to center at the drops, so a bit narrower at the hoods. I would be curious to see how it looks underneath, the channels and cavities in the old model probably added a lot of material and thus weight, the shape has changed a little but weight saving could mostly come from simplifying the underside.

Stendhal wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:37 am

Here are weights for other components, photos that did not load the other day, including the cage and bottles. I also have another photo of all the small parts and thingies that come with the frameset.

Could you please measure the width and height of the bottles?

Stendhal wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:22 am

Here are some photos (dark, not easy to take) of inside the head tube and the bottom bracket to try to show fit and finish. The interior of the head tube looks very clean and the bottom bracket looks sound if not Hambini-sound (some of the apparent glitch areas are really photo reflections).

Also I include photos of the 6 holes in addition to the standard holes for disc brakes. Holey moley! Is this a new way to gain aero? I'm not positive what each hole is for.

Hole under bb: Water drainage, don't want to have water inside the frame...
Holes behind seattube, lower for the wire to come out to the front derailleur, higher one I guess it's for the di2 cable for the front derailleur.

Only odd hole in the frame they could have skipped is the place where wires went in the frame on gen 3 and for the di2 junction which is nicer in the end of the bar.
(because the fork and Conceal stem works with mechanical shifting too.)

Stendhal wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:22 am

Here are some photos (dark, not easy to take) of inside the head tube and the bottom bracket to try to show fit and finish. The interior of the head tube looks very clean and the bottom bracket looks sound if not Hambini-sound (some of the apparent glitch areas are really photo reflections).

Also I include photos of the 6 holes in addition to the standard holes for disc brakes. Holey moley! Is this a new way to gain aero? I'm not positive what each hole is for.

Edit: Cerro beat me to it.

You guessed right with the drain hole (a must on any frame IMO, water always gets in no matter how people think it will or will not and without a drain hole at the lowest point, sitting water can ruin BB bearings) and the Smart Sense hole, the two behind the seat tube are for front mechs, top one for a Di2 wire, the bottom one required for a mechanical cable.

Personally I wouldn't mind about all these holes, they weren't just drilled without thinking, they were engineered in, so they don't weaken the frame and probably don't add much more than a handful of grams compared to if they weren't there, but they make the frame compatible with everything, not just electronic groups even if they're getting more and more popular and common, even at the higher end and with people for who money is no object, some people still prefer to stay away from electronics (I'm mostly thinking Campy SR here).

I do agree that the Smart Sense hole shouldn't be there though, more because Smart Sense is kind of badly thought of, half-assed, it makes lights look less integrated, not more with a bunch of additional wires and an added battery on the downtube. Smart Sense is kind of a fail from Cannondale IMO.

Plus, the only hole you'll notice when the bike is built and being ridden is the bigger one near the top of the downtube which was already on the previous generation Evo. Personally I would just put a small piece of color matching tape to block the Smart Sense and front derailleur port, nobody would know they're there and it would add next to no weight, even less than rubber grommets and less than having it patched with carbon and painted, which would be costly for what it is, unless someone was already going to have the frame custom painted.

Good hole detective work. I only need the drain hole as I am not running Di2 nor Smart Sense.

Dan Gerous wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:35 pm

Stendhal wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:01 pm

BigBoyND wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:48 am

Stendhal wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:20 pm

I wish I'd known about the Aerover, for some reason I'd never heard of it, but the Vision Metron I bought is not much heavier at 354 g actual, so yes I've saved from the Momo.

Is the Metron 5D ACR "Evo" a new model? It was at Taipei Cycle last week and I haven't heard of it before.

Found this pdf, which lists it as 320g in 110x420mm, very competitive. 45g lighter than the last version if you go my their listed weights.

https://www.visiontechusa.com/sites/def ... %20EVO.pdf

I think it is new. It's not on the regular Vision USA website and the markings are new.

New yes, it's been spotted here and there on pro bikes this spring. Weight is nice but the sizes are a bit limited if you want narrow and long... although if I recall, FSA measures bars center to center at the drops, so a bit narrower at the hoods. I would be curious to see how it looks underneath, the channels and cavities in the old model probably added a lot of material and thus weight, the shape has changed a little but weight saving could mostly come from simplifying the underside.

The spec sheet on the Vision website for the current US model gives measurements for both hood-to-hood and drop-to-drop, so you are spot on. As I recall the size 400 = that is the drop width, the hood width is 389 and change. For the 420 it was 409 at the hoods. The data was very helpful in assessing whether I could go to a smaller size than my current bars without losing too much width; I could, saving weight.

Bfriesen wrote:

wheelbuilder wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:40 am

Basso provides the exact layup schedule of their frames to the public...ply brand, dimension, orientation, thickness, the resin used etc, for the entire frame. It is some tedious reading, but interesting that they do this. Came upon it the other day while surfing and opened the pdf.

Sent from my SM-A526U1 using Tapatalk

Any chance you could link that? I can't seem to find it on their website and would be very interested in taking a look.

I will look for it tonight. It was linked via a review I was reading, but the link went to the Basso website and was part of technical/owners manual area.

Sent from my SM-A526U1 using Tapatalk

cajer wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:51 pm

Stendhal wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:37 am

Here are weights for other components, photos that did not load the other day, including the cage and bottles. I also have another photo of all the small parts and thingies that come with the frameset.

Could you please measure the width and height of the bottles?

No problem. 8 3/4 inches high, 3 1/4 inches wide, 2 inches depth (sideways in cage).
Probably not as fugly as I opined if matched with the Lab71 Wow! frameset, as the color is close

Build of the new bike accelerated due to f-a-s-t Cannondale frameset shipment. Build starts March 28, hopefully done by the end of week (more likely Sunday April 2). Build cannibalizes current bike for parts so no riding in interim (when it'll be raining anyway). Current total weight estimate is 6851 grams, size 56, with Assioma pedals but without water system and computer mount. (I replaced a vinyl tube with a Pirelli TPU tube on my current bike, that lowered the baseline.) As noted, low weight affected by shallow rim depth climbing-type wheels (prior generation Roval Alpinist 1248 g actual weight.). Water system will be one Prime aero bottle and cage = 100 grams. Computer mount estimated 30 g (it is a special mount for the Vision Metron barstem -- unfrotunately I bought one aftermarket on eBay before learning that Vision supplies one). Computer is Hammerhead Karoo 2. Final weight will increase when proper cassette installed (I'm using an 11 on a 12 speed system right now due to idiotic-by-me reason) but decrease if I install newly-announced lighter version of existing Goodyear Eagle F1 tires. (As I've written they are a weight weenie's hero, every one I've bought has weighed around 10g less than advertised.)

Cool aero water system: https://www.wiggle.com/prime-aero-tt-bo ... d-cage-kit
It looks like it's back in stock when it was out earlier.

wickedstealthy wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:00 pm

Svetty wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:41 pm

I don't want to carry an 8mm Allen key around with me purely to remove a thru-axle. What aftermarket thru-axles are currently favoured guys?

Same here. Eying on carbon ti or if I can get the aserra carbon ones I would get those just for the bling value

Does this help (and I'm in the same boat)? Fairwheel Bikes, the weight weenies' Tucson-based friend, classifies various front and rear thru-axles. It has a category for Rear X-12 (AKA Specialized / Syntace) 12×142. Per the Cannondale website, the new Supersix Evo 4 uses a 12x142 Syntace thru-axle (for the rear).

https://blog.fairwheelbikes.com/reviews ... hru-axles/

Here's more: cut and paste from the Cannondale SS6 Evo manual spec chart. Identifies lengths: 122mm front, 160 rear. Also, are these Syntace SKU or code numbers?

(This is the manual the new model, the same chart says the BB is BSA, and the footer says Rev. 1 (02/23))

Axles: Type/Length FT: Syntace 100mmxM12x1.0P,
122mm Overall Length
RR: Syntace 142mmxM12x1.0P,
160mm Overall Length

If "P" = pitch and "1.0P" means 1.0 pitch, very close to the 159mm \ 12x1 pitch Carbon-Ti model below as listed on the Fairwheel page from the prior post (which BTW is a bit old, it doesn't list the most current models in the compatibility notes). What was the slogan in the 1960s in the cigarette ad for the Benson & Hedges 101 -- "a silly millimeter longer"? (Boy I am dating myself!)

Carbon-Ti X-Lock X-12 Tapered 159mm 12×1 16.5mm

Here's the page for the "Thread: M12 x 1,0 mm" thru-axle on the Syntace site. Note that I could not find this in the products menu, I searched for it

https://www.syntace.com/en_GB/products/ ... -142mm-135

Link to Cannondale manual -- spec chart is page 8

https://www.cannondale.com/-/media/file ... 3-eng.ashx

Rather than buying new axles, why not a new tool with 8mm like a Daysaver?

BenCousins wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:51 am

Rather than buying new axles, why not a new tool with 8mm like a Daysaver?

Axles are also lighter certainly the rear one is lighter

BenCousins wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:51 am

Rather than buying new axles, why not a new tool with 8mm like a Daysaver?

quick Google search on bike multitool 8 mm hex shows Park Tool, Bontrager, Topeak hex set multitools that include 6 and 8 hex heads all under $40. I'll have to check whether my current tool, which I think is a Lezyne, follows form.

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