Cannondale SuperSix Evo4

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nooski
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:24 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by nooski

Lab71 is made from a different/lighter material than Hi-MOD (Series 0 carbon construction Toray M40X). The next thing is finishing and a very limited numbers available.
Dum spiro spero
my bike: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=130302

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matcav
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 3:52 pm

by matcav

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:07 am
However, people with short torso and use short stem or people that like to sit far behind the bb may find they like a more compact bike more.
I'm curious about this. won't be the slacker HTA & relatively high stack an advantage to people in need of long seat height & shorter reach?

Hexsense
Posts: 3269
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

matcav wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:52 am
Hexsense wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:07 am
However, people with short torso and use short stem or people that like to sit far behind the bb may find they like a more compact bike more.
I'm curious about this. won't be the slacker HTA & relatively high stack an advantage to people in need of long seat height & shorter reach?
For stack and reach perspective, you are right.
I mean in term of front/rear weight distribution.
There are other bikes with the same stack and reach or even more relax. But has shorter front center length from crank to front wheel. Some of those bikes also have more trail value to make steering feel more stable, compensate for the lack of weight on the front wheel as well. Those bikes will fit even better for people whose their weight center of gravity is really far back.

This stretched front center geometry for size 44-54 means less weight on front wheel and more on rear wheel. It sync very well for fitting that usually is front heavy*. And it still work very well for average fitting. Just less so if you are particularly rear heavy and light on the front wheel**.

* front heavy in this context is relative. Strictly speaking, everyone carry more weight on rear wheel than front. If rear heavy is 63-70% weight on rear wheel and 30-37% on front wheel. Front heavy I mean like 55-59% rear, 41-45% front

** light on the front wheel is not to be confused with light on the hand. You may carry 0 weight on the hands but by your center of gravity location, front-rear wheel weight distribution vary.

wickedstealthy
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:16 pm

by wickedstealthy

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:18 pm
matcav wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:52 am
Hexsense wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:07 am
However, people with short torso and use short stem or people that like to sit far behind the bb may find they like a more compact bike more.
I'm curious about this. won't be the slacker HTA & relatively high stack an advantage to people in need of long seat height & shorter reach?
For stack and reach perspective, you are right.
I mean in term of front/rear weight distribution.
There are other bikes with the same stack and reach or even more relax. But has shorter front center length from crank to front wheel. Some of those bikes also have more trail value to make steering feel more stable, compensate for the lack of weight on the front wheel as well. Those bikes will fit even better for people whose their weight center of gravity is really far back.

This stretched front center geometry for size 44-54 means less weight on front wheel and more on rear wheel. It sync very well for fitting that usually is front heavy*. And it still work very well for average fitting. Just less so if you are particularly rear heavy and light on the front wheel**.

* front heavy in this context is relative. Strictly speaking, everyone carry more weight on rear wheel than front. If rear heavy is 63-70% weight on rear wheel and 30-37% on front wheel. Front heavy I mean like 55-59% rear, 41-45% front

** light on the front wheel is not to be confused with light on the hand. You may carry 0 weight on the hands but by your center of gravity location, front-rear wheel weight distribution vary.
I'm sitting 50mm behind bb with short saddle so pretty forward. In sprinting I regularly have issues with back wheel loosing grip. Also for example Canyon advises me a small which I tried and is utterly shit to ride if you sit so far forward. Very nervous even for an endurance frame together with a short 90mm stem 🤣
I think the sse4 will fit me far better in size 54

Mocs123
Posts: 826
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 9:19 pm

by Mocs123

wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:45 am
Can someone share the facts/ info on what "exactly" is the difference with the LAB71?
Personally i think it should be a very detailed spec on what this is about, because if anything, that exclusivity is what they try to sell, so it should be easy access information.
I think it was reported that the LAB 71 frame was 40 grams lighter than the Hi-Mod frame. Other than that, it comes with the one peice cockpit, CeramicSpeed BB, lighter saddle, different bar tape, Dura-Ace Groupset, etc.
Last edited by Mocs123 on Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Mocs123 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:34 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:45 am
Can someone share the facts/ info on what "exactly" is the difference with the LAB71?
Personally i think it should be a very detailed spec on what this is about, because if anything, that exclusivity is what they try to sell, so it should be easy access information.
I think it was reported that the LAB 71 frame was 40 grams lighter than the Hi-Mod frame.
Yes, but that isn't saying much at all. Wouldn't you like to know, if you invested in LAB71, what am i buying here over Hi-Mod?
Personally i would like a spec what i buy. I mean this is supposedly the best Cannondale have done, so what more exactly are you getting compared to the Hi-Mod?
Yeah, you get 40 grams and a more funky paint job?
Surely there must be way more going on here!?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

BenCousins
Posts: 1366
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:46 am

by BenCousins

wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:41 pm
Mocs123 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:34 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:45 am
Can someone share the facts/ info on what "exactly" is the difference with the LAB71?
Personally i think it should be a very detailed spec on what this is about, because if anything, that exclusivity is what they try to sell, so it should be easy access information.
I think it was reported that the LAB 71 frame was 40 grams lighter than the Hi-Mod frame.
Yes, but that isn't saying much at all. Wouldn't you like to know, if you invested in LAB71, what am i buying here over Hi-Mod?
Personally i would like a spec what i buy. I mean this is supposedly the best Cannondale have done, so what more exactly are you getting compared to the Hi-Mod?
Yeah, you get 40 grams and a more funky paint job?
Surely there must be way more going on here!?
Nope, it's a different type of carbon which requires slightly less layers in certain areas and that makes it lighter. That is it.

Source: interview with Cannondale engineers on The Cycling Podcast.

TLN
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:50 pm

by TLN

Lina wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:12 am
Cannondale pretty much advertises Lab71 as the lightest, bestest thing they can do. The biggest issue all the SmartSense™ stuff has is that the bike would probably be a few grams lighter without it. So it's not the lightest, bestest thing they can do. Same with mechanical shifting compatibility. Does it make any real world difference? No it doesn't, but it goes against their marketing spiel. Besides most people don't care about that stuff. What people care about in terms of electronics is a Varia mount and a GoPro mount under the headunit for a front light/camera. And neither would require any extra holes in the frame.
Internet forums: LAB71 is Pinnacle and should only be used for top level racing.
Posts that I'm seeing on a facebook a week later: LAB71 with 32c touring tires.
337229238_2119564584907977_2393990176836747141_n.jpg
:D :D
His: Orbea Orca OMX
Hers: Cannondale Synapse HM Disc

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Spinnekop
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: South Africa

by Spinnekop

TLN wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:07 pm
Lina wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:12 am
Cannondale pretty much advertises Lab71 as the lightest, bestest thing they can do. The biggest issue all the SmartSense™ stuff has is that the bike would probably be a few grams lighter without it. So it's not the lightest, bestest thing they can do. Same with mechanical shifting compatibility. Does it make any real world difference? No it doesn't, but it goes against their marketing spiel. Besides most people don't care about that stuff. What people care about in terms of electronics is a Varia mount and a GoPro mount under the headunit for a front light/camera. And neither would require any extra holes in the frame.
Internet forums: LAB71 is Pinnacle and should only be used for top level racing.
Posts that I'm seeing on a facebook a week later: LAB71 with 32c touring tires.

337229238_2119564584907977_2393990176836747141_n.jpg

:D :D
Van der Poel won MSR on 30mm yes? :lol:
So not far off.......... :wink:
"In my experience, there is only one motivation, and that is DESIRE.
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"

nooski
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:24 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by nooski

wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:41 pm
Mocs123 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:34 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:45 am
Can someone share the facts/ info on what "exactly" is the difference with the LAB71?
Personally i think it should be a very detailed spec on what this is about, because if anything, that exclusivity is what they try to sell, so it should be easy access information.
I think it was reported that the LAB 71 frame was 40 grams lighter than the Hi-Mod frame.
Yes, but that isn't saying much at all. Wouldn't you like to know, if you invested in LAB71, what am i buying here over Hi-Mod?
Personally i would like a spec what i buy. I mean this is supposedly the best Cannondale have done, so what more exactly are you getting compared to the Hi-Mod?
Yeah, you get 40 grams and a more funky paint job?
Surely there must be way more going on here!?
What exactly do you need apart info I wrote at the top? Magic wizards do not make it during the full moon nor virgin blood was used for construction.
Dum spiro spero
my bike: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=130302

TLN
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:50 pm

by TLN

Spinnekop wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:12 pm
TLN wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:07 pm
Lina wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:12 am
Cannondale pretty much advertises Lab71 as the lightest, bestest thing they can do. The biggest issue all the SmartSense™ stuff has is that the bike would probably be a few grams lighter without it. So it's not the lightest, bestest thing they can do. Same with mechanical shifting compatibility. Does it make any real world difference? No it doesn't, but it goes against their marketing spiel. Besides most people don't care about that stuff. What people care about in terms of electronics is a Varia mount and a GoPro mount under the headunit for a front light/camera. And neither would require any extra holes in the frame.
Internet forums: LAB71 is Pinnacle and should only be used for top level racing.
Posts that I'm seeing on a facebook a week later: LAB71 with 32c touring tires.

337229238_2119564584907977_2393990176836747141_n.jpg

:D :D
Van der Poel won MSR on 30mm yes? :lol:
So not far off.......... :wink:
30mm on wide rim is still aerodynamic. Roval clx are 33 or 34mm wide, so you even comply with 105% rule. Corsa 30 runs ~32mm on my 32mm ext Reserve wheels for example

Most 32mm tires will be ~34-35mm wide violating all the studies discussed here :smartass:
His: Orbea Orca OMX
Hers: Cannondale Synapse HM Disc

pmprego
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

As is the case for thw sworks bikes, also here cannondale is putting imo better paint schemes for the lab71 bike. That's one reason to pay extra - having a more exquisite paint scheme.

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 2413
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

If I understood things correctly, LAB71 construction is similar to the 1st generation Evo Black Inc that used Nano tech. It uses carbon with a slightly higher stiffness to weight ratio where possible (frames rarely use the exact same type of carbon everywhere) but also, Nano resin can get in more microscopic pores/voids/gaps so less resin is needed to have the same strength. Something like that.
Last edited by Dan Gerous on Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pmprego
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

Do people usually demand this type of info from specialized in their sworks vs non sworks frames? or about scott's hmx and hmx-SL frames? The same for cervelo? Canyon? Pinarello? I really don't understand what's the fuss about knowing the technicalities of the different cannondale frames.

by Weenie


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Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

TLN wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:07 pm
Lina wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:12 am
Cannondale pretty much advertises Lab71 as the lightest, bestest thing they can do. The biggest issue all the SmartSense™ stuff has is that the bike would probably be a few grams lighter without it. So it's not the lightest, bestest thing they can do. Same with mechanical shifting compatibility. Does it make any real world difference? No it doesn't, but it goes against their marketing spiel. Besides most people don't care about that stuff. What people care about in terms of electronics is a Varia mount and a GoPro mount under the headunit for a front light/camera. And neither would require any extra holes in the frame.
Internet forums: LAB71 is Pinnacle and should only be used for top level racing.
Posts that I'm seeing on a facebook a week later: LAB71 with 32c touring tires.

337229238_2119564584907977_2393990176836747141_n.jpg

:D :D
You think this is some burn towards our feelings about the senseless SmartSense™ and other stuff. But it isn't. You need 30 or 32 mm clearance for tires nowadays on race bikes if the plan is to race those bikes on classics. And no one said you can't use it for other stuff than top level racing. But if the plan is to make the absolute best race bike you can, then it's time to forget mechanical shifting and trying to integrate your own lights and stuff into the frame.

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