Fair enough - I wonder why @StevieB was experiencing less resistance with the top stem bolts vs the bottom. Maybe just stem specific
Cannondale SuperSix Evo4
Moderator: robbosmans
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Actually, the spacers don't run full height. They do for a few mm at the very rear where the "feet" of the spacers are, but for most of their width they're cut away at the bottom so there's room for the brake lines to enter using the Conceal stem. The Conceal has a recess on the bottom of the extension, as well as a cable guide, so the brake lines appear to be fully internal when in reality they're not. See pic from an earlier thread
As a result, there is no spacer support at the bottom sides for several mm of stem clamp height. For beefier stems such as the OEM one, there's enough material so that the clamp is rigid and you probably won't notice the difference, but with lightweight stems that use minimal material you do. Uno 3D stems are one example.
The attached pic shows the spacers inside a Deda EL stem. The EL is a pretty beefy stem (used for its hard to find 115mm length), and you can see the spacers stop inside the extension, well above the bottom of the stem clamp; don't have a pic handy, but it shows even more in the Uno 3D. If you had a bar with a center port for the brake lines, you could grind off a bit more spacer and run fully internal lines with most any stem, but at a cost of stem/steerer interface and stiffness at the bars. Jonas Rusch's EF Pro bike is set up that way, so it's doable. As for me, with the lines external from bar to headset cap I'd be happier with spacers that didnt have the cutaway. I'd also like to see better sealing of the holes where the brake lines enter the cap. I filled mine with silicone seal around the brake lines, otherwise you have a direct path for water/junk to go straight to the bearings.
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- SSE4 internal stem pic.jpg (73.47 KiB) Viewed 1696 times
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The attached pic shows the spacers inside a Deda EL stem. The EL is a pretty beefy stem (used for its hard to find 115mm length), and you can see the spacers stop inside the extension, well above the bottom of the stem clamp; don't have a pic handy, but it shows even more in the Uno 3D. If you had a bar with a center port for the brake lines, you could grind off a bit more spacer and run fully internal lines with most any stem, but at a cost of stem/steerer interface and stiffness at the bars. Jonas Rusch's EF Pro bike is set up that way, so it's doable. As for me, with the lines external from bar to headset cap I'd be happier with spacers that didnt have the cutaway. I'd also like to see better sealing of the holes where the brake lines enter the cap. I filled mine with silicone seal around the brake lines, otherwise you have a direct path for water/junk to go straight to the bearings.
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How long are these spacers/fillers? Shorter than 40mm, which is the typical height of the clamp area of a stem?
Or do they sit higher because you've left a bit of the steerer tube uncut above the stem?
You mean girinding off a bit of these spacers/fillers here?
The attached pic shows the spacers inside a Deda EL stem. The EL is a pretty beefy stem (used for its hard to find 115mm length), and you can see the spacers stop inside the extension, well above the bottom of the stem clamp; don't have a pic handy, but it shows even more in the Uno 3D. If you had a bar with a center port for the brake lines, you could grind off a bit more spacer and run fully internal lines with most any stem, but at a cost of stem/steerer interface and stiffness at the bars. Jonas Rusch's EF Pro bike is set up that way, so it's doable. As for me, with the lines external from bar to headset cap I'd be happier with spacers that didnt have the cutaway. I'd also like to see better sealing of the holes where the brake lines enter the cap. I filled mine with silicone seal around the brake lines, otherwise you have a direct path for water/junk to go straight to the bearings.
[/quote]
How long are these spacers/fillers? Shorter than 40mm, which is the typical height of the clamp area of a stem?
Or do they sit higher because you've left a bit of the steerer tube uncut above the stem?
You mean girinding off a bit of these spacers/fillers here?
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- SSE4 internal stem pic.jpeg (115.85 KiB) Viewed 1630 times
Can't say enough good things about this bike. It's fast and comfy. Only downside is it's not as stiff as some other bikes. But on the 85 miles I did today, basically no fatigue. And since I don't make 2000 watts of power stiffness isn't a problem. I love this thing.
Yesterday, something happened with my SSE4 that hasn't happened since my first experiences with my first carbon bike (a 2008 Felt): the bike disappeared. I was passing a (pretty) slower rider and didn't notice my bike or how hard I was pedaling it .. I just moved passed her. It was Zen, it was wonderful, and the bike stayed gone. To be sure some of this is due to factors other than the Cannondale; I carried over the same smooth bottom bracket (BBInfinite) and drive train from my prior bike, plus smooth riding tires (Goodyear) on nice wheels (Roval). But Cannondale contributed a frame that is stiff enough (*), compliant enough, aero enough, and light enough despite a disc setup to get me up a 13.2% climb today.
(*) It's comparable to the Tarmac SL6 I used to ride. If it's not as stiff as other bikes in tests such as Tour, I suspect that is due to the not-at-all-oversized BSA bottom bracket shell. It'd be interesting to see the bike with a Cervelo / Factor BBRight T47 bracket.
(*) It's comparable to the Tarmac SL6 I used to ride. If it's not as stiff as other bikes in tests such as Tour, I suspect that is due to the not-at-all-oversized BSA bottom bracket shell. It'd be interesting to see the bike with a Cervelo / Factor BBRight T47 bracket.
Cannondale Supersixevo 4 (7.05 kg)
Retired: Chapter2, Tarmac SWorks SL6, Orbea, Dogma F8\F10, LOW, Wilier, Ridley Noah, Cervelo R3\R5\S2\Aspero, Time Fluidity, Lapierre Pulsium, Cyfac, Felt, Klein, Cannondale pre-CAAD aluminum
Retired: Chapter2, Tarmac SWorks SL6, Orbea, Dogma F8\F10, LOW, Wilier, Ridley Noah, Cervelo R3\R5\S2\Aspero, Time Fluidity, Lapierre Pulsium, Cyfac, Felt, Klein, Cannondale pre-CAAD aluminum
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I distinctly remember some brands saying that beyond 65n/mm BB stiffness was detrimental to ride feel and that 55-60 was the ideal range.
I guess people here are complaining mostly about front end (lack of) stiffness. I've heard other places talk about disc rub when out of the saddle also.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:08 amI distinctly remember some brands saying that beyond 65n/mm BB stiffness was detrimental to ride feel and that 55-60 was the ideal range.
+1, tour results of 56 N/mm BB is good for most people, but not ideal for strong sprinters. 71 N/mm of SL6 is an overkill for most people, but good for strong sprinters.
However, the fork (40) and the headtube (90) are horrible in my book, especially the fork.
However, the fork (40) and the headtube (90) are horrible in my book, especially the fork.
I wonder what are the stiffness numbers for my 2017 Evo Hi-Mod Disc. Better or worse than those of the current bike?alanyu wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:16 am+1, tour results of 56 N/mm BB is good for most people, but not ideal for strong sprinters. 71 N/mm of SL6 is an overkill for most people, but good for strong sprinters.
However, the fork (40) and the headtube (90) are horrible in my book, especially the fork.
Gen 2 has much better stiffness, but also much worse comfort.S6ED wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:00 amI wonder what are the stiffness numbers for my 2017 Evo Hi-Mod Disc. Better or worse than those of the current bike?alanyu wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:16 am+1, tour results of 56 N/mm BB is good for most people, but not ideal for strong sprinters. 71 N/mm of SL6 is an overkill for most people, but good for strong sprinters.
However, the fork (40) and the headtube (90) are horrible in my book, especially the fork.
Yep... That fork stiffness puts me off this bike given that I currently have an addict rc which has very good bb stiffness for my legs but I feel the front end not at the same level - and I even moved to a shimano pro stem to increase stiffness in that area. It helped on feeling the handlebars stiffer but dont do nothing for the fork blades when out of the saddle.alanyu wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:16 am+1, tour results of 56 N/mm BB is good for most people, but not ideal for strong sprinters. 71 N/mm of SL6 is an overkill for most people, but good for strong sprinters.
However, the fork (40) and the headtube (90) are horrible in my book, especially the fork.
S6ED wrote:I wonder what are the stiffness numbers for my 2017 Evo Hi-Mod Disc. Better or worse than those of the current bike?alanyu wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:16 am+1, tour results of 56 N/mm BB is good for most people, but not ideal for strong sprinters. 71 N/mm of SL6 is an overkill for most people, but good for strong sprinters.
However, the fork (40) and the headtube (90) are horrible in my book, especially the fork.
I publish it few pages above. The BB is not as much an issue as the fork (and HT).
Thanks! What does "BI" mean in "SuperSix Evo2 BI"?C36 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:07 pmS6ED wrote:I wonder what are the stiffness numbers for my 2017 Evo Hi-Mod Disc. Better or worse than those of the current bike?alanyu wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:16 am+1, tour results of 56 N/mm BB is good for most people, but not ideal for strong sprinters. 71 N/mm of SL6 is an overkill for most people, but good for strong sprinters.
However, the fork (40) and the headtube (90) are horrible in my book, especially the fork.
I publish it few pages above. The BB is not as much an issue as the fork (and HT).
Well, if higher numbers mean more stiffness, then Gen2 Evo is pretty much the stiffest of all. And after riding mine for the last six years (almost exclusively climbs & descents due to where I live), I wouldn't want anything less stiff. I mean, with 54 fork stiffness, I do sometimes get disc brake rub in the front end when out of the saddle in steep hairpins. The current bike with 40 stiffness must be horrible. And BB stiffness of Gen2 is alright but wouldn't want any less. Or do I get something wrong? As of comfort, with Veloflex Corsa Evo TLR 28mm (on Mavic Cosmic SLR 40) it rides like buttah! Btw, I'm 74Kg and no Andre Greipel.
Last edited by S6ED on Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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