Cannondale SuperSix Evo4

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

skinnybex
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:07 pm

by skinnybex

I appreciate your response and opinion as I can understand better why certain design elements are madfe by these engineers. Especially the insight into Conti.I bought the latest Corsa Pro and although it seems to test slower than the GP5k TR regarding RR I love the suppleness and feel of the tire so far. I guess it's different horses for courses as everyone has something they prefer in a product.
23’ Cervelo Soloist / 6.88kg - 1x Crit Bike
22' Cervelo R5 / 6.35kg - Climbing Bike
22' Cervelo Caledonia 5 / 7.55kg - Travel Bike
21' Cervelo Aspero / 8.06kg - Gravel Travel Bike
23' Cervelo Aspero 5 / 8.25kg - Gravel Race Bike

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



rayrick
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:13 pm

by rayrick

Are the new Corsa Pros slower than the GP5K TRs? I haven't seen them tested yet - they're not up on bicyclerollingresistance yet.

LedZeppelin007
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

On the one hand, I do think the BB on the gen 4 is a little flexy. On the other hand, it doesn’t seem to matter, even at 85kg. Cannondale have made a comfortable, aero, light bike. It’s noticeably less stiff than the SL7, but it actually feels a little more stiff than gen 3 (just my opinion, obviously I have no way to test). It’s a more pleasant ride than the SL7 for sure and my average speeds suggest that it’s more aero.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

User avatar
C36
Posts: 2471
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

skinnybex wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 1:49 pm
I appreciate your response and opinion as I can understand better why certain design elements are madfe by these engineers. Especially the insight into Conti.I bought the latest Corsa Pro and although it seems to test slower than the GP5k TR regarding RR I love the suppleness and feel of the tire so far. I guess it's different horses for courses as everyone has something they prefer in a product.
The Corsa pro have just been tested as fast as the GP5K and if I trust the comments are more supple, usually meaning they are able to perform better when the road deteriorates by transmitting less vibrations, then less impedances losses (or could inflate them slightly more, drop rolling resistance without being penalized by the extra vibrations an harder tire would transmit). The GP5K does better than the 4K but remains harder than the Cup for example.

skinnybex
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:07 pm

by skinnybex

rayrick wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 2:06 pm
Are the new Corsa Pros slower than the GP5K TRs? I haven't seen them tested yet - they're not up on bicyclerollingresistance yet.
Aerocoach has data and although the numbers are almost a dead heat I suspect BRR will show a 3 watt difference on the drum. The data is for the 25mm Conti and 26mm Corsa Pro.
23’ Cervelo Soloist / 6.88kg - 1x Crit Bike
22' Cervelo R5 / 6.35kg - Climbing Bike
22' Cervelo Caledonia 5 / 7.55kg - Travel Bike
21' Cervelo Aspero / 8.06kg - Gravel Travel Bike
23' Cervelo Aspero 5 / 8.25kg - Gravel Race Bike

rayrick
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:13 pm

by rayrick

...and BRR has the 25mm Conti S TR's essentially tied with the 28mm version.

StevieB
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:54 pm

by StevieB

C36 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 1:40 pm
Does stiffness impact ride feel and measurable performance, yes, no doubt.
Is it a clear science? no if not we would have found the ideal bike ages ago, even within the same brand, they changed over time what their target is (I can share how BMC targets evolved over time, it had been published few years ago).
Do lab test tell all the story? no, some brands (usually not tested well) did claim that the Tour test is not significant. Now I had the chance to test ride a lot of the frames tested and to be able to build an educated guess reading lab tests. Now I don't pretent that what I like will suit everyone.
Finally, there is an halo risk around brands desining bikes to do well on Tour test, it happened a decade ago when the STW was their key metric and ended up with rubbish riding bikes, it happened on tires where Conti did oversized and hard sidewalls tires to do well on the test, deteriorating real life quality. But overall to tell a compelling story Tour test do work.

What surprises me on the Evo4 is that it drifts massively from what Cannondale did forever and drift from what Peter Denk did with the Evo1-2 and SL6-7 who have been the dominant bike of their generation from a ride quality standpoint. To lower stiffness compared to the System6 that really doesn't ride nicely was expected but dropping nearly 20% average versus the Evo2 and 3 is a strange move.
I think the Delta steerer is the driver (pun intended) of the drop in front end lateral stiffness, with the move to BSA doing same for BB stiffness. As for Denk designs, the SSE4 vs 3 actually mirrors Spesh's evolution from SL6 to SL7 pretty closely. Less stiff everywhere except for at the saddle where the aero seatpost moved the dial in the other direction. Interesting that some the most successful Pro bikes on the list (Dogma F & SL7) are at the lower end of the (relative) stiffness spectrum. The SSE4 definitely does deviate from Cannondale's long time ethos of stiffer is better, but it appears to be proving stiff enough.

Reminds me of decades ago when I tried to answer the stiffness question by having two very different race bikes in my stable; a Vitus 979 and one of the first gen Cannondale race frames (built with Dura Ace AX; my, how aero has evolved!). Night and day in terms of stiffness, but my results didn't really favor one over the other. The Cannondale felt faster and more responsive to big gear efforts, but my legs stayed fresher on the Vitus and my best TT's were on it. Those original CD's were brutal (you could lay the frame down and stand on the empty dropout with no rear wheel in it; that would destroy any modern frame), while the Vitus would be far flexier than anything on Tour's current charts.

I can see where choices for better aero and serviceability would trump STW, so maybe we're at a point where all the data is converging on a range for best solutions, and brand differences are more about marketing than actual performance. Geometry/fit is still a differentiator, and that's what drove me to SSE4 rather than SL7.

aprivat
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:49 am

by aprivat

Hi,

I might be able to buy a size 56 Lab 71 frameset which is available now at my LBS. However, I am not familiar with the SuperSix Evo4 sizing and won't be able to do a proper test before my purchase.

My previous Specialized Tarmacs and Trek Madone and Emonda have always been size 56 with 100 mm stem. My height is 181 cm and my mid-crankbox-to-top saddle measure is 76 cm.

Based on the released geometry information from Cannondale, a size 56 should work; however, I have learned the hard way that geometry information is not always comparable across brands.

I have struggled a bit with my left shoulder recently which means that the slightly higher stack of a size 56 is actually not a bad thing for me, though it is important to me that the bike does feel too big.

My alternative would be to wait until a size 54 becomes available.

Thanks.
Cannondale Lab71 (2023)
S-Works Tarmac SL8 (2023)
Trek Domane Koppenberg (2014)
Specialized S-Works Crux (2021)

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

If you already run spacers on your other 56cm bikes, then so would go with the 56cm SSE. If you are slammed on your other bikes then think about the 54cm.

alanyu
Posts: 1506
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

People are asking if the delta steerer has something to do with the reduced stiffness, and I'm also wondering how much so many holes could reduce the stiffness.

aprivat
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:49 am

by aprivat

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:34 am
If you already run spacers on your other 56cm bikes, then so would go with the 56cm SSE. If you are slammed on your other bikes then think about the 54cm.
Many thanks.

I used to be running them without spacers but on my Madone seventh generation I have 1 - 1.5 cm of spacers because of the shape of the handlebar and the position of the hoods, which are slightly more aggressive than what I have been used to in the old days with separate handlebar and stem.

It sounds as if I am in between 54cm and 56cm.
Cannondale Lab71 (2023)
S-Works Tarmac SL8 (2023)
Trek Domane Koppenberg (2014)
Specialized S-Works Crux (2021)

gwinch
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 9:23 pm

by gwinch

I currently have the C1 Conceal stem & Vision bars. I am going to change the bars from the 40's that came on it to to 37/38's probably Enve Aero. While I am at it I may change the stem to something like this. https://www.sigmasports.com/item/ENVE/A ... 8G#reviews

Does any stem fit the delta steerer, is it just a case of inserting the shims on a standard stem as you do with the conceal? Will any stem sit nicely on the standard bottom spacer?

OUGrad05
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:39 pm

by OUGrad05

I pickup my supersix Friday. Should be able to get a good ride in Saturday.

rayrick
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:13 pm

by rayrick

My understanding is that standard stems fit the delta steerer with the little adapter pieces in place.
Last edited by rayrick on Wed May 24, 2023 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
Stendhal
Posts: 894
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:43 am
Location: Silicon Valley

by Stendhal

aprivat wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 7:50 pm
Hi,

I might be able to buy a size 56 Lab 71 frameset which is available now at my LBS. However, I am not familiar with the SuperSix Evo4 sizing and won't be able to do a proper test before my purchase.

My previous Specialized Tarmacs and Trek Madone and Emonda have always been size 56 with 100 mm stem. My height is 181 cm and my mid-crankbox-to-top saddle measure is 76 cm.

Based on the released geometry information from Cannondale, a size 56 should work; however, I have learned the hard way that geometry information is not always comparable across brands.

I have struggled a bit with my left shoulder recently which means that the slightly higher stack of a size 56 is actually not a bad thing for me, though it is important to me that the bike does feel too big.

My alternative would be to wait until a size 54 becomes available.

Thanks.
I used to ride a size 56 Tarmac (SL6) and now ride a 56 Supersixevo. The reach and stack numbers accurately report how the bikes compare, which is that the SSE is a bit less aggressive and with a higher stack exactly as you surmise. I too appreciate the slightly higher stack and it is not too far in that direction (I've had endurance bikes that have put me to sleep). As Tobin stated, you can finer- tune the stack to your preference via spacer height (or lack thereof). I'm shorter than you and a 56 is not too large.
Cannondale Supersixevo 4 (7.05 kg)
Retired: Chapter2, Tarmac SWorks SL6, Orbea, Dogma F8\F10, LOW, Wilier, Ridley Noah, Cervelo R3\R5\S2\Aspero, Time Fluidity, Lapierre Pulsium, Cyfac, Felt, Klein, Cannondale pre-CAAD aluminum

Post Reply