Cannondale SuperSix Evo4

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omarcastz
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:23 pm

by omarcastz

alanyu wrote:
Thu May 18, 2023 4:06 pm
The good news is that SSE gen4 is pretty fast as 207 watts without monobar, which means putting on the monobar will make it as fast as some full-aero bike such as foil, but the bad news is that it comprises stiffness and comfort A LOT.

------------gen 4 vs gen 3-------
Stiffness: 90 vs 100 (headtube); 40 vs 52 (fork); 56 vs 72 (BB) (higher is better)
Comfort: 120 vs 76 (lower is better)

Edit: not sure about exact comfort (76?) on gen 3
For reference these are the values for the prevous gen supersix. Interesting that it is quite a bit more aero but also quite a bit less stiff. In fact it looks like it's actually less stiff than gen 2 and closer to gen 1 :noidea: Could going back to threaded bottom bracket account for loss of stiffness in the bottom bracket? and what about the fork and headtube areas? Definitely interesting results...
Attachments
supersix_aero_drag.png
supersix_aero_drag2.jpg

Nereth
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:18 am

by Nereth

Anyone know how they do the headset stiffness? Is the fork included in the test or do they take it off and yank on the steerer?

by Weenie


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omarcastz
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:23 pm

by omarcastz

thinking about the design changes from previous generations:
- The bottom bracket area changed from pressfit (BB30 then PF30A) to Threaded (BSA). Would this cause it to be less stiff?
- The headset area changed to be slimmer and more aero than gen 3 (gen 2 and gen 1 were pretty much round). same question as above regarding stiffness...
- The fork is an interesting one, especially since the Gen 2 fork was so slim... Gen 4 fork has more material... wonder if the pizza shaped steerer in gen 4 has something to do with it.
- Are the R-SL 50 wheels so much harher/stiffer that the design required the frame to be less stiff? (in other words, Cannondale designed the bike as an entire system...)

Can someone post a screenshot from the Tour mag with the details on the SSE gen 4? (if it's allowed). The posted values for stiffness seem quite odd when compared with previous generations. It doesn't appear to make sense that the stiffness values for gen 4 (a disk brake bike) are worse than gen2 and close to gen 1 (both rim brake). Conventional wisdom would say that the expected values for stiffness would be much closer to the gen 3 version.
Last edited by omarcastz on Fri May 19, 2023 6:07 am, edited 5 times in total.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

omarcastz wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 5:38 am
wonder if the pizza shaped steerer in gen 4 has something to do with it.

I can't imagine why the delta steerer would affect the look of the fork. The delta shape is just circle with two cuts made through it.

rayrick
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:13 pm

by rayrick

I also wonder how much small differences in stiffness translate to performance for not-so-young-and-strong enthusiast-level riders. If one's power meter rarely (if ever) shows numbers higher than 800W, would one ever notice? Whereas I would think the aero benefits would be tangible even if one is not racing at 45 km/hr.

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C36
Posts: 2471
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

rayrick wrote:I also wonder how much small differences in stiffness translate to performance for not-so-young-and-strong enthusiast-level riders. If one's power meter rarely (if ever) shows numbers higher than 800W, would one ever notice? Whereas I would think the aero benefits would be tangible even if one is not racing at 45 km/hr.
It’s like aero, it is always there but significant out of the saddle (more linked to biomechanics gesture than losses inside the frame). At 300w it has been measured quite clearly by some brands, but if you don’t race the biggest impact will be on how reactive the frame is and how pleasant it is to ride with.

Yet very interested to test ride it.

ekm
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 18, 2023 12:07 am

by ekm

Does anyone have the stock integrated bar sizes for the various frame sizes for the Hi-Mod 1/Lab71? Mostly interested in the 61, which I think is 42x110?

nooski
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:24 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by nooski

Well, not even Cannondale themself.
Dum spiro spero
my bike: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=130302

rayrick
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:13 pm

by rayrick

I know the 54 and 56 both come with 42x100 bars, but I'm not sure how I know that. Maybe I asked Cannondale directly? No idea about the 61.

ekm
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 18, 2023 12:07 am

by ekm

The Vision Metron 5D bars look like they fit well with the frame's spacer stack—are there other integrated bars people have found work well with that and the cable routing?

pmprego
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

rayrick wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 2:53 pm
I know the 54 and 56 both come with 42x100 bars, but I'm not sure how I know that. Maybe I asked Cannondale directly? No idea about the 61.
42 wide bars for size 54.... Incredible

skinnybex
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:07 pm

by skinnybex

pmprego wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 8:44 pm
rayrick wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 2:53 pm
I know the 54 and 56 both come with 42x100 bars, but I'm not sure how I know that. Maybe I asked Cannondale directly? No idea about the 61.
42 wide bars for size 54.... Incredible
exactly the same for Specialized, Cervelo, Giant and a few other big box brands regarding factory builds. Rightly or wrongly this is a huge expense to have to spend additional funds to go with a narrower bar that suits the buyers preference. The other annoyance is actually finding the size you prefer if you want the branded bar that normally comes with the build. I'm not a Factor fan but they have the best formula with the ability to choose stem and bar as well as seatpost.
23’ Cervelo Soloist / 6.88kg - 1x Crit Bike
22' Cervelo R5 / 6.35kg - Climbing Bike
22' Cervelo Caledonia 5 / 7.55kg - Travel Bike
21' Cervelo Aspero / 8.06kg - Gravel Travel Bike
23' Cervelo Aspero 5 / 8.25kg - Gravel Race Bike

rayrick
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:13 pm

by rayrick

The guys on the Nero Show youtube channel were just ranting about this exact issue.

pmprego
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

rayrick wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 9:00 pm
The guys on the Nero Show youtube channel were just ranting about this exact issue.
I ride 54 and use a 38cm wide bar. Honestly, according to my shoulders (don't remember the exact name of the bones where measures are taken), I should be on a 37cm. Going to a 40cm now seems propestorous and not because of aeroness. It's just really xondortable for me. Putting me in a 42cm would just be stupid. In conclusion, any full build is immediately a bad deal in my books.

LedZeppelin007
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

I’m quite irritated with the wide bars on my bike.

Otherwise, it’s just a rocket ship.

I think the wind tunnel tests tell us that the R-SL 50 wheels are also rapid.

I ripped off a 42 mile tempo ride today, solo, with a majority 12mph headwind and 3000 feet of climbing, riding on the hoods at 265 watts (285 normalized, I weigh 85kg) with a 20mph average. This was also my first time trying the Corsa Pro tires which are extremely nice. I typically average 16-17 mph on hilly solo rides (granted I was in a hurry today and put in some extra effort that landed me solidly in Z3 instead of Z2). Rumbling along on the flats at 260ish watts in places of decent tarmac, I was at 23-24mph, a good couple of mph higher than usual.

It’s just a fast bike.


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by Weenie


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