Cannondale SuperSix Evo4
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- Dan Gerous
- Posts: 2413
- Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm
Aero bikes make a huge difference in the mountains too, you can go downhill much faster and the false flat descents and valley roads in between each mountains can also be ridden much faster, and in these situations, average cyclists hit speeds over the tested 48km/h speed the watts gained are claimed, so the difference in speed is even bigger there.
Disclaimer, I like to descend fast.
But regarding why pros opt for lighter less aero bikes, many are just retro grouches and reluctant to change, some bike companies needed to work ahrd and long to convince some about the significance of aerodynamics. But in many case it comes down just to some prefering how one bike 'feels' over the other, and GC guys for exemple, maybe Pogacar exluded, they usually stay hidden in the peloton most of the day where aero difference doesn't matter as much and only hit the wind once they're on 8+% climbs where lighter bikes are a tad better.
Disclaimer, I like to descend fast.
But regarding why pros opt for lighter less aero bikes, many are just retro grouches and reluctant to change, some bike companies needed to work ahrd and long to convince some about the significance of aerodynamics. But in many case it comes down just to some prefering how one bike 'feels' over the other, and GC guys for exemple, maybe Pogacar exluded, they usually stay hidden in the peloton most of the day where aero difference doesn't matter as much and only hit the wind once they're on 8+% climbs where lighter bikes are a tad better.
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I generally don't draft a procession of vehicles or a hundred cyclists. But maybe it makes more sense to look at how Jumbo chose bikes.tarmackev wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:04 pmMakes you wonder why they don'r ride the System Six in every race. Perhaps in real world conditions with buffeting air its not as black and white. Would love ride the System Six.BenCousins wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:02 pmDid you read the Cannondale paper about the gradient at which the Systemsix stops being faster than the Supersix? Hint: it's quite steep, and the aero bike is faster in all other situations. So think about a ride: Everything apart form the sections of over 6% are faster (or less effort) on an aero bike.charirider wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:53 pmRight, no need for aero when you ride in mountains almost exclusively, here in Japan.BenCousins wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:31 am
You are 100% correct, if you want rim brakes and you don't care about aero there's no reason to buy this bike.
And sse2 also more stiffer than newer ones with dropped seatstays.
- Dan Gerous
- Posts: 2413
- Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm
Many pros just prefer the feel of one bike over the other and are willing to lose a few watts for it... but it's worth noting when comparing the data of watts saved between each bikes that, in Cannondale's case, it's the full bike as speced stock. Evo 2 was with normal round bars and not the most aero wheels, the Evo 3 was with the Save bars and 45mm Hollowgram rims, the Evo 4 with the MOMO bar and 50mm rims and the SystemSix with KNOT bars and 64mm rims...
The difference between the Evo 2 and 3 was quite big unsurprisingly, the difference between the Evo 3 and 4 is smaller at a claimed 12 watts at 48km/h, but a big proportion of that comes from slightly more aero wheels, and a little from more aero bars. And a big proportion of the SystemSix's advantage comes from the deeper wheels (the KNOT 64 wheels are very very aero), a little from narrower bars (although narrower bars probably don't make a huge difference if it's not tested with a rider).
For the EF guys, they always use whatever they like from sponsor FSA/Vision for bars and wheels anyway, so if they put the same bars and wheels on the SusperSix and the SystemSix, the difference, especially with the new SuperSix, is probably small, the SystemSix is still said to be faster, but maybe not enough to justify it over a much lighter bike that feels better to many riders. And if one of us was to put KNOT 64 wheels on the Evo 4 and not ride hella wide bars that sadly often come stock on SuperSix Evos, it would probably not lose much to the SystemSix in most situations.
That is why some suspect the SystemSix not to stay in the lineup much further, there are only two SystemSix builds in the line this year here in Canada. Kind of like what Specialized did when the Tarmac redesign became close enough in aerodynamics to the Venge that they killed the Venge line.
The difference between the Evo 2 and 3 was quite big unsurprisingly, the difference between the Evo 3 and 4 is smaller at a claimed 12 watts at 48km/h, but a big proportion of that comes from slightly more aero wheels, and a little from more aero bars. And a big proportion of the SystemSix's advantage comes from the deeper wheels (the KNOT 64 wheels are very very aero), a little from narrower bars (although narrower bars probably don't make a huge difference if it's not tested with a rider).
For the EF guys, they always use whatever they like from sponsor FSA/Vision for bars and wheels anyway, so if they put the same bars and wheels on the SusperSix and the SystemSix, the difference, especially with the new SuperSix, is probably small, the SystemSix is still said to be faster, but maybe not enough to justify it over a much lighter bike that feels better to many riders. And if one of us was to put KNOT 64 wheels on the Evo 4 and not ride hella wide bars that sadly often come stock on SuperSix Evos, it would probably not lose much to the SystemSix in most situations.
That is why some suspect the SystemSix not to stay in the lineup much further, there are only two SystemSix builds in the line this year here in Canada. Kind of like what Specialized did when the Tarmac redesign became close enough in aerodynamics to the Venge that they killed the Venge line.
I've used them yes for 100k. Wasn't convinced before but they work pretty well. Have to think about it first times you put it back but then not as much. Will get a pair when they get available for my SuperSIX gen3 bike.
No real width measurement but would say 1cm narrower on each side compared to a regular bottle.
/jonas l
http://instagram.com/jonaslundb
http://instagram.com/jonaslundb
That sounds like a potential winner. Do you know when they might be available? Also what's their capacity?cerro wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:45 pmI've used them yes for 100k. Wasn't convinced before but they work pretty well. Have to think about it first times you put it back but then not as much. Will get a pair when they get available for my SuperSIX gen3 bike.
No real width measurement but would say 1cm narrower on each side compared to a regular bottle.
I'm probably not going to use the bottles and cages that will come with my frameset (scheduled ship date March 30) as I already have an aero bottle and cage (Prime) and frankly (if not unwisely) don't use water bottles often. (My rides tend to be 10-40 miles and there are ample water fountains.) If I don't want them I will sell them for a Friends Of Weight Weenie l-o-w price, although I don't know whether shiping costs outside of the US would make a sale uneconomical to ROW.cajer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:55 pmThat sounds like a potential winner. Do you know when they might be available? Also what's their capacity?cerro wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:45 pmI've used them yes for 100k. Wasn't convinced before but they work pretty well. Have to think about it first times you put it back but then not as much. Will get a pair when they get available for my SuperSIX gen3 bike.
No real width measurement but would say 1cm narrower on each side compared to a regular bottle.
Cannondale Supersixevo 4 (7.05 kg)
Retired: Chapter2, Tarmac SWorks SL6, Orbea, Dogma F8\F10, LOW, Wilier, Ridley Noah, Cervelo R3\R5\S2\Aspero, Time Fluidity, Lapierre Pulsium, Cyfac, Felt, Klein, Cannondale pre-CAAD aluminum
Retired: Chapter2, Tarmac SWorks SL6, Orbea, Dogma F8\F10, LOW, Wilier, Ridley Noah, Cervelo R3\R5\S2\Aspero, Time Fluidity, Lapierre Pulsium, Cyfac, Felt, Klein, Cannondale pre-CAAD aluminum
Send me a PM when they come in. I'm located in the US and would be interested in buying themStendhal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:00 pmI'm probably not going to use the bottles and cages that will come with my frameset (scheduled ship date March 30) as I already have an aero bottle and cage (Prime) and frankly (if not unwisely) don't use water bottles often. (My rides tend to be 10-40 miles and there are ample water fountains.) If I don't want them I will sell them for a Friends Of Weight Weenie l-o-w price, although I don't know whether shiping costs outside of the US would make a sale uneconomical to ROW.cajer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:55 pmThat sounds like a potential winner. Do you know when they might be available? Also what's their capacity?cerro wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:45 pmI've used them yes for 100k. Wasn't convinced before but they work pretty well. Have to think about it first times you put it back but then not as much. Will get a pair when they get available for my SuperSIX gen3 bike.
No real width measurement but would say 1cm narrower on each side compared to a regular bottle.
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Idd. I was focused on the lightest bike but now being more and more trained I feel that 50mm wheels are faster and don't want to ride any low height wheels. Tested my custom duke wheels 56mm wheels today in windy conditions and they felt awesome. Swoosh swoosh Will ditch all my low profile wheels.Dan Gerous wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:44 pmAero bikes make a huge difference in the mountains too, you can go downhill much faster and the false flat descents and valley roads in between each mountains can also be ridden much faster, and in these situations, average cyclists hit speeds over the tested 48km/h speed the watts gained are claimed, so the difference in speed is even bigger there.
Disclaimer, I like to descend fast.
But regarding why pros opt for lighter less aero bikes, many are just retro grouches and reluctant to change, some bike companies needed to work ahrd and long to convince some about the significance of aerodynamics. But in many case it comes down just to some prefering how one bike 'feels' over the other, and GC guys for exemple, maybe Pogacar exluded, they usually stay hidden in the peloton most of the day where aero difference doesn't matter as much and only hit the wind once they're on 8+% climbs where lighter bikes are a tad better.
Still thinkering if I would use again Duke custom wheel at 30mm wide 56mm height or relace the hollow gram 50 rsl with tactic hubs. I really think those 32mm wide rims are fast though a bit heavier. Got the weight of those hubs 110/230 so going to tactic would drop around 135gr
I'm still thinkering if I would try some 2.3/2mm carbon spokes or not. Not sure how much impact on aero performance that would give compared to aerolite spokes
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- Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 11:49 am
according to Jean-Paul as SwissSide, if you are doing over 15kph aero counts more than weight.BenCousins wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:02 pmDid you read the Cannondale paper about the gradient at which the Systemsix stops being faster than the Supersix? Hint: it's quite steep, and the aero bike is faster in all other situations. So think about a ride: Everything apart form the sections of over 6% are faster (or less effort) on an aero bike.charirider wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:53 pmRight, no need for aero when you ride in mountains almost exclusively, here in Japan.BenCousins wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:31 amYou are 100% correct, if you want rim brakes and you don't care about aero there's no reason to buy this bike.charirider wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:34 amMy ss evo2 in 56 size has 30mm tire clearance, light, sfiff, and more importantly rim brake.
I don't see any reasons to go for evo4, despite posh effect and hype.
Need to stock extra ss2 hm frame for the future!
And sse2 also more stiffer than newer ones with dropped seatstays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmqdqcOvrlc
For me, according to Gribble, an 8% hill based on realistic inputs, I would need 332.47W to ride at 15kph. At 10% that would be 406.67W, so shorter climbs only
Plug in your own numbers here, for your regular climbs.
https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html
Scott Foil RC10 Ultegra 12 speed / Creston 50 - 7.9Kg
Haven't used them yet as my bike is getting built, however here is a pic of them next to a noninsulated camelback. They are 600ml capacity, camelback is 620.
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Probably more secure than a Podium bottle also. I hate the neck design on this gen and last gen Podiums.
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- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Depends on wind. Any headwind and aero bike still is fasterSixThirteen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:11 amaccording to Jean-Paul as SwissSide, if you are doing over 15kph aero counts more than weight.BenCousins wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:02 pmDid you read the Cannondale paper about the gradient at which the Systemsix stops being faster than the Supersix? Hint: it's quite steep, and the aero bike is faster in all other situations. So think about a ride: Everything apart form the sections of over 6% are faster (or less effort) on an aero bike.charirider wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:53 pmRight, no need for aero when you ride in mountains almost exclusively, here in Japan.BenCousins wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:31 am
You are 100% correct, if you want rim brakes and you don't care about aero there's no reason to buy this bike.
And sse2 also more stiffer than newer ones with dropped seatstays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmqdqcOvrlc
For me, according to Gribble, an 8% hill based on realistic inputs, I would need 332.47W to ride at 15kph. At 10% that would be 406.67W, so shorter climbs only
Plug in your own numbers here, for your regular climbs.
https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html
- robbosmans
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Has anyone gotten their hands on the conceal stem? Or is there any info on weights? Just waiting to be disappointed by another heavy low quality integrated stem.
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- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:35 am
I have a 58cm himod i'm waiting to build. I find it a little backwards that the conceal stems aren't even avail at the shop-level to allow proper fits. Maybe this is the way all brands launch bikes now?
I'm dealing with a similar fit issue in that they aren't offering a zero setback seatpost option. if anyone has a line on one let me know. Otherwise i think i'll be waiting until the end of the summer when they *might* be avail to build.
I'm dealing with a similar fit issue in that they aren't offering a zero setback seatpost option. if anyone has a line on one let me know. Otherwise i think i'll be waiting until the end of the summer when they *might* be avail to build.
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Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
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