*NEW GEN* SRAM Force Groupset March 2023

[robeambro]

I'm hoping that SRAM will shift to use mineral oil like they did this year with their DB8 brakes.

I heard that there is a dealer presentation on the new group happening over the next couple weeks.

Maybe we can gather some more information when those presentations start.

Provided that this is only speculation, if they actually did that..
As a person who doesn't understand brakes much - if they did that and I wanted to "convert" an existing AXS groupset to mineral oil, would I only need to change the callipers or the levers too?

[ooo]

levers too, levers and calipers uses fluid specific seals/membrane

[robeambro]

levers too, levers and calipers uses fluid specific seals/membrane

Thanks. Would be good to know if they actually were going to do this. Anyone have any intel?

[cerro]

I'm hoping that SRAM will shift to use mineral oil like they did this year with their DB8 brakes.

I heard that there is a dealer presentation on the new group happening over the next couple weeks.

Maybe we can gather some more information when those presentations start.

So we can have leaking squeeling brakes like Shimano? No thanks.

[Nickldn]

I'm hoping that SRAM will shift to use mineral oil like they did this year with their DB8 brakes.

I heard that there is a dealer presentation on the new group happening over the next couple weeks.

Maybe we can gather some more information when those presentations start.

So we can have leaking squeeling brakes like Shimano? No thanks.

Not sure if I'm reading your message right, but it would be good to know how use of mineral oil contributes to Shimano's squeaky brakes, compared to DOT brake fluid used by SRAM. Is this really a thing?

[Hexsense]

I'm hoping that SRAM will shift to use mineral oil like they did this year with their DB8 brakes.

I heard that there is a dealer presentation on the new group happening over the next couple weeks.

Maybe we can gather some more information when those presentations start.

So we can have leaking squeeling brakes like Shimano? No thanks.

Not sure if I'm reading your message right, but it would be good to know how use of mineral oil contributes to Shimano's squeaky brakes, compared to DOT brake fluid used by SRAM. Is this really a thing?

Shimano leaky ceramic piston is a problem exclusive to Shimano. Not all piston do it. But the defective ones (which strangely not so rare) let mineral oil slowly weep through ceramic piston very very slowly. It'll contaminate the pad and disc if the bike is left no use for months (like storing bike for winter, to use it in spring/summer). It's more common on mtb where there are more smaller pistons per caliper vs fewer bigger piston road caliper.

Other mineral oil brakes such as Magura, Campagnolo, Formula, TRP, Hope don't have this issue. So I won't tie this issue to mineral oil either. It's Shimano issue, not mineral oil issue.

[TLN]

I got both, road and mountain bikes. I got no issues with type of breaking fluid at this moment and changing 2-3 bikes sounds expensive to me.
I would need something else to convert me from from sram to upcoming sram

[Nickldn]

I'm hoping that SRAM will shift to use mineral oil like they did this year with their DB8 brakes.

I heard that there is a dealer presentation on the new group happening over the next couple weeks.

Maybe we can gather some more information when those presentations start.

So we can have leaking squeeling brakes like Shimano? No thanks.

Not sure if I'm reading your message right, but it would be good to know how use of mineral oil contributes to Shimano's squeaky brakes, compared to DOT brake fluid used by SRAM. Is this really a thing?

Shimano leaky ceramic piston is a problem exclusive to Shimano. Not all piston do it. But the defective ones (which strangely not so rare) let mineral oil slowly weep through ceramic piston very very slowly. It'll contaminate the pad and disc if the bike is left no use for months (like storing bike for winter, to use it in spring/summer). It's more common on mtb where there are more smaller pistons per caliper vs fewer bigger piston road caliper.

Other mineral oil brakes such as Magura, Campagnolo, Formula, TRP, Hope don't have this issue. So I won't tie this issue to mineral oil either. It's Shimano issue, not mineral oil issue.

It's probably safe to say leaking pistons are an industry wide problem. Shimano is the biggest and so would have the highest number of cases, but I doubt any manufacturer is blameless.

I have had an issue with a Campagnolo caliper leaking fluid and contaminating brake pads. Sadly Campy's UK distributor refused to warranty the caliper and said it must have been a fitting issue, despite the bike being checked by a Campy service centre. I have new caliper on the bike now and it works perfectly.

The reason brakes are an emotive issue is because it really affects safety. If the bicycle industry was as regulated as the car and motorcycle industry we would have much more reliable brake calipers and fewer Micky Mouse pistons/seals.

As for SRAM, yes they are different, but as far as I know the only advantage of DOT brake fluid is that is has a higher boiling point than mineral oil. Great for a car, or motorcycle, but really not sure if it's any advantage to a bicycle braking system. The real issue with DOT brake fluid is that it's a great paint stripper. I'd be happy to see DOT go.

[TobinHatesYou]

As for SRAM, yes they are different, but as far as I know the only advantage of DOT brake fluid is that is has a higher boiling point than mineral oil. Great for a car, or motorcycle, but really not sure if it's any advantage to a bicycle braking system. The real issue with DOT brake fluid is that it's a great paint stripper. I'd be happy to see DOT go.

I think the main benefit of DOT is that water dissolves into it rather than forming large bubbles should there be any ingress. So instead of the possibility of sudden brake failure due to the water going through phase changes, you get continual slow degradation in brake performance.

It's a bit chicken/egg though since a mineral oil system is less likely to pull water out of the air in the first place.

[Nickldn]

As for SRAM, yes they are different, but as far as I know the only advantage of DOT brake fluid is that is has a higher boiling point than mineral oil. Great for a car, or motorcycle, but really not sure if it's any advantage to a bicycle braking system. The real issue with DOT brake fluid is that it's a great paint stripper. I'd be happy to see DOT go.

I think the main benefit of DOT is that water dissolves into it rather than forming large bubbles should there be any ingress. So instead of the possibility of sudden brake failure due to the water going through phase changes, you get continual slow degradation in brake performance.

It's a bit chicken/egg though since a mineral oil system is less likely to pull water out of the air in the first place.

Yes, famouly DOT brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs moisture from the air. This is why many car manufacturers recommend a brake fluid change every 2 years.

This is a tradeoff worth paying for the high boiling point of DOT brake fluid in a car braking system, which is subject to high temperatures. Not sure it's such a good tradeoff for bicycles.

[TobinHatesYou]

To that effect I could see mineral oil being a problem in frigid winter climates like if you lived in Winnipeg or Oulu or something. Mineral oil’s freezing point is somewhere around -30F.

[Lina]

To that effect I could see mineral oil being a problem in frigid winter climates like if you lived in Winnipeg or Oulu or something. Mineral oil’s freezing point is somewhere around -30F.

I've ridden mineral oil brakes in around -40F on a bike that has been stored outside without any problems. And any colder than that it just start being very difficult to ride for various reasons. Everything else starts to be a problem in those temps but the brakes are fine. One of the biggest benefits of hydraulic braking for me is that it just works in winter. My gears might be frozen, snow/ice might accumulate onto the bike so that you have to occasionally stop to clear it, but the brakes just work.

[Aeo]

Comparison of bike brake fluids: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

[Hexsense]

Shimano leaky ceramic piston is a problem exclusive to Shimano. Not all piston do it. But the defective ones (which strangely not so rare) let mineral oil slowly weep through ceramic piston very very slowly. It'll contaminate the pad and disc if the bike is left no use for months (like storing bike for winter, to use it in spring/summer). It's more common on mtb where there are more smaller pistons per caliper vs fewer bigger piston road caliper.

Other mineral oil brakes such as Magura, Campagnolo, Formula, TRP, Hope don't have this issue. So I won't tie this issue to mineral oil either. It's Shimano issue, not mineral oil issue.

It's probably safe to say leaking pistons are an industry wide problem. Shimano is the biggest and so would have the highest number of cases, but I doubt any manufacturer is blameless.

I have had an issue with a Campagnolo caliper leaking fluid and contaminating brake pads. Sadly Campy's UK distributor refused to warranty the caliper and said it must have been a fitting issue, despite the bike being checked by a Campy service centre. I have new caliper on the bike now and it works perfectly.

Yeah, no manufacturer is blameless to leaky piston.
But most other brands leak either because of how the piston and seal fit in the bore. Or cracked piston. Those are usually quite sudden.
Shimano, however, is frequently reported with ceramic piston that simply weep fluid through ceramic pore slowly. So slow that if you use the bike frequently, the leak fluid won't accumulate enough to be noticeable. It'll just leave some ring shape mark in the back of the brake pads. Mtbr users suggested white shimano ceramic piston to have this happen a lot. But little to no report of such problem on black piston used on the new flat mount calipers yet.

Another problem of Shimano brake is wandering bite point on mtb brakes. There are speculation of what cause it which seems to be related to the too small hole between master cylinder to the resevoir and the viscosity of mineral oil in cold.

Anyway, I think it's wrong to associate Shimano issue with mineral oil issue. Other brands that use mineral oil don't have nearly as many problem as Shimano.

[jlok]

Fellow members are well educated about dot vs mineral/db vs rim etc in various posts (especially those locked I think more spy shots and specs are welcome.