*NEW GEN* SRAM Force Groupset March 2023

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

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DaveS
Posts: 3921
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

Overall, I've got few complaints with my three Force AXS groups. I've never used SRAM cranks, due to their limited range. Never had a chain drop with GRX or Campy Chorus cranks, or any FD setup problems. I've swapped cranks and FDs around on six frames. An 11-40 would be required to match the range of a 10-36. The 10T is needed to get a wide range without huge sprockets. XDR hasn't been a problem either.

by Weenie


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satanas
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

Range is all very well and good, but the actual gear ratios also matter! With AXS, SRAM basically gives you higher gears at the top end, however these are worthless to me as I'm a spinner. Closer ratios elsewhere, or lower gears would be much more useful to me - and no doubt to some others as well - but those aren't options SRAM gives anyone, just even higher gears with their "pro" chainrings. As for the 13T gap, I think this is a good thing, and more or less mirrors the old 53x39 rings, whereas I find 50x34 to be annoying large. A bigger gap isn't so bad provided the outer ring is small enough to be more usable, not IME the case with 50T.

Note that I'm not saying the stock 12 speed options from Shimano or Campag are ideal either; I'm inclined to think they suck, and that there's little incentive so far to switch from 11 speeds, where there are many, many more options.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

satanas wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:47 am
Range is all very well and good, but the actual gear ratios also matter! With AXS, SRAM basically gives you higher gears at the top end, however these are worthless to me as I'm a spinner. Closer ratios elsewhere, or lower gears would be much more useful to me - and no doubt to some others as well - but those aren't options SRAM gives anyone, just even higher gears with their "pro" chainrings. As for the 13T gap, I think this is a good thing, and more or less mirrors the old 53x39 rings, whereas I find 50x34 to be annoying large. A bigger gap isn't so bad provided the outer ring is small enough to be more usable, not IME the case with 50T.

Note that I'm not saying the stock 12 speed options from Shimano or Campag are ideal either; I'm inclined to think they suck, and that there's little incentive so far to switch from 11 speeds, where there are many, many more options.

With the 10t cog, you can afford to go down in chainring size, which means percentage jumps are smaller from an absolute sense. It's doing the sensible thing by adding a 10% jump to the top end because even with Shimano 11-xx 12-speed cassettes the jumps at the low-end quickly go past 10% or the gaps would alternately grow and shrink.

It's honestly the best way to keep gear ratio jumps tight AND improve range.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

satanas
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:13 am
It's honestly the best way to keep gear ratio jumps tight AND improve range.
^ Which would be fine if SRAM made smaller rings than they do; no argument that smaller cogs help with 1x. For me, even 46x33 yields a top gear that would be usable only rarely. 46x11 would be less of a waste of space, say with AXS elsewhere and a Shimano 11-30 cassette. YMMV!

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

satanas wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:38 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:13 am
It's honestly the best way to keep gear ratio jumps tight AND improve range.
^ Which would be fine if SRAM made smaller rings than they do; no argument that smaller cogs help with 1x. For me, even 46x33 yields a top gear that would be usable only rarely. 46x11 would be less of a waste of space, say with AXS elsewhere and a Shimano 11-30 cassette. YMMV!
46x10 is only slightly larger than 50x11, which is already smaller than traditional road gearing. Additionally 43/30 exists. You can use the 94bcd spider on a non-wide DUB spindle crank or any of the Asian aftermarket 8-bolt cranks like my Croder. You have options.

I'm not exactly the strongest rider and I went 50/34x10-33, I use the 11t cog often enough and reserve the 10t as an overdrive gear, and it keeps me primarily in the middle cogs during tempo.
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satanas
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

Yeah, I know about the 43x30 rings, but then you can't have a power meter spider. I'd be more likely to run 46x33 and just not use top gear that often.

As for "traditional gearing" that depends on when we're talking about. When I started riding that was typically 54x42 + 13-18 around here (Sydney, AU), then 13-21 a bit later on, then 53x39 + 12-2x, and more recently the TDF guys have been using things like 53x39 + 11-28/30 with DA 91xx, then ~54x40 + 11-29/30/32/34 etc with 12 speeds (non-SRAM).

Whilst I can occasionally find a use for 53x12 or 50x11, for me it's not needed and anything higher is pretty well worthless; like I said, I'm a spinner. 46x10 is plenty big enough, and at least 33T isn't so small as to be completely useless on the flat when JRA. If SRAM keep to the current chainring sizes and just tidy things up a bit here and there I'll probably get AXS on the next road bike as while I'm not completely convinced about their gear ratio options they're better than the opposition, and the shift logic appeals, as do wireless Blips, and the ability to have spare batteries.

Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

I'm a spinner also and yet I'm on 50x11 on most rides when I'm riding a bike with that gearing. It doesn't take much of a downhill to reach that if you keep pedaling on downhills. Of course if you only coast on downhills then you might not need it nearly as much.

DaveS
Posts: 3921
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

A 50/11 and 46/10 are nearly identical and the 48/10 is the same as a 53/11, so there's really no difference in available top gearing. On the low end, shimano's 34/36 is 3% bigger than sram's 33/36. My 46/30 grx crank gives me a lower 30/36 that only sees use when I pedal seated on 13% grades. I also have 10-33 cassettes that can be used and still beat shimano's 34/36 with my 30/33 and not lose the 14T sprocket. With a 10-36, having a 46/32 ratio available helps to reduce shifts to the little ring while still pedaling seated.

I actually make significant use of the 46/10 on some of my modest descents.

bobones
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

I found 50/11 (same as 46/10) was a bit too low for fast group rides on the flat without excessive spinning: I was always clicking my shifter looking for one more gear. I switched to 52/36 rings from 50/34 primarily because of that. Now on AXS I find 48/35 with 10-33 is wide enough for my usual rolling terrain, but 46/33 also works for me. I used 46/33 with 10-36 for the extreme 25-30% slopes of Hardknott pass in the Fred Whitton where it's impossible to stay seated without your front wheel lifting. I don't imagine needing lower gearing than that for road. I currently flip between bikes with AXS and traditional gearing, and I definitely prefer AXS' 13 tooth front gap and smaller rings because front shifts are less frequent and disruptive. For a short while I had 52/36 with a 10-33 and although extreme, I could always find use for 52-10 when going downhill!

robeambro
Posts: 1829
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

In general I don't fully agree with the "I don't need this high/low gear therefore this is wrong for me". Yeah well, if you don't find yourself needing either end of the cassette, it means you're often in the middle of it, and this means you have the right gearing.

dbordewisch
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:35 am

by dbordewisch

Any pictures or what may change?

kervelo
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:58 am
Location: Finland

by kervelo

I hope that SRAM releases the new Force components soon. Some old Force components are already very hard to find, for example the xg-1270 cassettes are out of stock in many places.

bobones
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

kervelo wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:05 pm
I hope that SRAM releases the new Force components soon. Some old Force components are already very hard to find, for example the xg-1270 cassettes are out of stock in many places.
Yes, I found it almost impossible to get XG-1270 cassettes last year and almost opted for one of the AliExpress XDR cassettes from ZTTO. I think this lack of availabilty
was what prompted me to try Shimano 12-speed cassettes with AXS, as they were cheaper and easier to get.

More recently, though, I have been able to pick up a lot of AXS stuff at decent prices. BikeInn in particular has XG-1170 cassettes and other AXS gear in stock at good prices, with the bonus that (post Brexit) they ship to the UK with all taxes prepaid. I got my stuff within a week or so, and would recommend them highly, but returns could be a bit more hassle.

jadedaid
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:43 pm

by jadedaid

xg-1271 can be bought in germany still, in the US it was unavailble everywhere I looked.

by Weenie


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kervelo
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:58 am
Location: Finland

by kervelo

bobones wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:44 pm
...More recently, though, I have been able to pick up a lot of AXS stuff at decent prices. BikeInn in particular has XG-1170 cassettes and other AXS gear in stock at good prices, with the bonus that (post Brexit) they ship to the UK with all taxes prepaid. I got my stuff within a week or so, and would recommend them highly, but returns could be a bit more hassle.
Yes, I have noticed the good prices of BikeInn. However, I would recommend everyone planning to purchase from BikeInn to first read thru the customer reviews of the shop. According to many recent comments the shop is not reliable and handling any kind of issues is usually impossible. That said, I have used the shop a couple of times in the past without any issues.

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