Shimano 12-speed cassette with SRAM AXS?

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

Post Reply
satanas
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

^ Thank you! I have a rim brake bike I'd like to convert to use Shimano 12 cassettes; this might be the ideal solution. ;-)

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



s3si1u
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:12 am

by s3si1u

MrStop wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:57 pm
satanas wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:32 pm
MrStop wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:14 am
Note that Ratio has a new kit that will be released shortly that is designed to work better with a Shimano cassette and chain.
^ If they don't hurry up 105 mechanical will be out first, not that it seems that will have a rim brake option...
The Shimano Ratio kit is available now. You have to contact them directly to order.

I have seen the rumored 105 mechanical and a bike shop mentioned it being available in May. It would be interesting if Shimano would have a retail groupset that quick on something, to my knowledge, hasn't been publically announced yet. That said, if you already own a SRAM 10 or 11 speed you can upgrade for far less than a new groupset.
Thanks for the heads up! I was wondering when we would see this kit from Ratio. I love this idea as it doesn't require buying into half of the AXS system.

MrStop
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:59 pm
Location: United States

by MrStop

The bike is now back together. Installation of that new Ratio Shimano-spec 12 speed ratchet was pretty straight forward following their instructions. Make sure to use lots of grease on the ratchets. I started with some silicone paste, but the shifter was sticking. I relubed with a bunch of lithium grease and it is now shifting just fine. I added a 0.5mm shim to the rear of the cassette to get it closer to the new Sram Red crankarm chainline. Clearance of the chain/cassette to the frame is close but fine. Even if there were clearance, the biggest issue I would see with a larger shim is that there aren't enough threads on the cassette lock ring.

I did a short and light 5 mile test run this evening. The Sramano 12-speed setup seems to be working good with crisp shifts and no slips or skipping. Tomorrow I plan to put it through the paces with a planned ride of 60 miles along with 4,335ft of fairly steep climbing.

MrStop
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:59 pm
Location: United States

by MrStop

Some pics:
IMG_20230325_183443.jpg
IMG_20230325_183435.jpg
IMG_20230325_183424.jpg
IMG_20230325_183418.jpg
IMG_20230325_183353.jpg

MrStop
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:59 pm
Location: United States

by MrStop

I did my big test ride yesterday. 57 miles with over 4,000 feet of climbing and descending over 12 hills. Grades on the hills usually hit between 10 and 17% at some point. Needless to say, the shifters got a workout along with my legs.

Until my RD cable stretched or slipped, my Sramano setup performed flawlessly. The Ratio Shimano-speced ratchet seemed to match the Shimano cassette perfectly. This is my first SRAM based system, but shifts were crisp and satisifying.

s3si1u
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:12 am

by s3si1u

I have a couple observations on my Sramano AXS setup now that I have a full AXS (XPLR) setup to compare to.
I notice only one real downside to my Praxis/SRAM/Shimano/KMC combo: it is noticeably louder than the full AXS setup. Can't say much about drag or power loss, but it doesn't feel any slower. I would even say shifting is on par, but I'll need a few more rides on both setups before I can say for sure. So far it's just louder, but not so much that it bothers me. Will definitely be trying another 12 speed chain option as well as the Force AXS chain from the new bike and see how these differ from the KMC X12.

samarskyrider
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:14 pm
Contact:

by samarskyrider

MrStop wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:33 pm
Until my RD cable stretched or slipped, my Sramano setup performed flawlessly. The Ratio Shimano-speced ratchet seemed to match the Shimano cassette perfectly. This is my first SRAM based system, but shifts were crisp and satisifying.
Can you comment on FD shifting with Praxis rings (given it's mechanical)? I have about the same setup as you (Buzz 12spd rings, ultegra cassette + chain), except for I run Force AXS RD + Rival AXS FD.

In my experience front shifting was subpar and slow on those rings with shimano 12spd chain with occasional drops on the BB (had to install chaincatcher) and outboard (managed to find middle ground by fine tuning FD). Dramatic improvement in FD shifting performance came with flattop chain, but at the expense of chain slipping on the cassette due to larger rollers of SRAM Flattop chain :mrgreen: Seems like a zero sum game

MrStop
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:59 pm
Location: United States

by MrStop

samarskyrider wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:38 pm
MrStop wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:33 pm
Until my RD cable stretched or slipped, my Sramano setup performed flawlessly. The Ratio Shimano-speced ratchet seemed to match the Shimano cassette perfectly. This is my first SRAM based system, but shifts were crisp and satisifying.
Can you comment on FD shifting with Praxis rings (given it's mechanical)? I have about the same setup as you (Buzz 12spd rings, ultegra cassette + chain), except for I run Force AXS RD + Rival AXS FD.

In my experience front shifting was subpar and slow on those rings with shimano 12spd chain with occasional drops on the BB (had to install chaincatcher) and outboard (managed to find middle ground by fine tuning FD). Dramatic improvement in FD shifting performance came with flattop chain, but at the expense of chain slipping on the cassette due to larger rollers of SRAM Flattop chain :mrgreen: Seems like a zero sum game
Shifting on the front seems fine, but the only thing I have to compare it to is the original worn 9-speed Ultegra crank and chainrings it replaced. I did have a few low side dropouts later during my ride. I'm hoping it's that the derailluer just went out of adjustment or I didn't set it up properly. Will need a few more rides to see if it's a continued problem or any pattern to the dropouts.

smptl
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:30 am

by smptl

Thanks for all the great experience shared! Just ordered a Sram force etap AXS rear mech and 105 12 speed casette and going to try the KMC X12 chain with 12s compatible narrow/wide chainring from Stone to go 1X12🤞

StiffWeenies
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm

by StiffWeenies

MrStop wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:33 pm
I did my big test ride yesterday. 57 miles with over 4,000 feet of climbing and descending over 12 hills. Grades on the hills usually hit between 10 and 17% at some point. Needless to say, the shifters got a workout along with my legs.

Until my RD cable stretched or slipped, my Sramano setup performed flawlessly. The Ratio Shimano-speced ratchet seemed to match the Shimano cassette perfectly. This is my first SRAM based system, but shifts were crisp and satisifying.
does the kit come with new pulleys too?

MrStop
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:59 pm
Location: United States

by MrStop

Yes

bobones
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

samarskyrider wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:38 pm
MrStop wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:33 pm
Until my RD cable stretched or slipped, my Sramano setup performed flawlessly. The Ratio Shimano-speced ratchet seemed to match the Shimano cassette perfectly. This is my first SRAM based system, but shifts were crisp and satisifying.
Can you comment on FD shifting with Praxis rings (given it's mechanical)? I have about the same setup as you (Buzz 12spd rings, ultegra cassette + chain), except for I run Force AXS RD + Rival AXS FD.

In my experience front shifting was subpar and slow on those rings with shimano 12spd chain with occasional drops on the BB (had to install chaincatcher) and outboard (managed to find middle ground by fine tuning FD). Dramatic improvement in FD shifting performance came with flattop chain, but at the expense of chain slipping on the cassette due to larger rollers of SRAM Flattop chain :mrgreen: Seems like a zero sum game
I've just removed my CN-M8100 (Ultegra) chain after 2279 miles and will be replacing it with a KMC X12. This (rim) bike has Rival AXS derailleurs, and Ultegra CS-R8100 11-34 cassette and was paired with 52/36 Praxis Buzz 12-speed rings for most of that distance. I wasn't overly impressed with the Praxis front shifting: a bit noisy and hesitant at times, but it worked reliably and never dropped. Those rings are now on a different Sramano bike, this time with 105 cassette, Force derailleurs and Force AXS chain, and it's working well enough there too. The Ultegra bike now has 11-speed 52/36 SRAM rings and the front shifting is definitely quicker and smoother than the Praxis rings. Rear shifting seems to be spot on with all the chains I've used and there's definitely no skipping with AXS flattop chains on any of my 12-speed HG cassettes.

spandy24
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:35 pm

by spandy24

I've just installed Ratio's new (unreleased) shimano 12spd ratchet on a Sram RED 2012 10spd shifter and it works great (just be sure you have the red colored cable barrel). I paired it with a new shimano 12spd 11-30 cassette, which is great as it lets you use 11 spd HG bodied hubs. Running it with an M8100 chain per Ratio's recommendations. Tuning it was pretty straight forward but the "tuned" range is very small since the gaps between gears are smaller. Usually I had a several 1/4 turns on the barrel adjuster either way from the optimal tuned position to make micro adjustments. Now it can go from perfectly tuned to out of tune in about two 1/4 turns.

MrStop
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:59 pm
Location: United States

by MrStop

Just put about 200 miles and 10,000 feet of elevation on my Shimano 12-spd Ratio kit. It performed flawlessly!

User avatar
xsnailx
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:36 pm
Location: Poland
Contact:

by xsnailx

spandy24 wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:38 pm
I've just installed Ratio's new (unreleased) shimano 12spd ratchet on a Sram RED 2012 10spd shifter and it works great (just be sure you have the red colored cable barrel). I paired it with a new shimano 12spd 11-30 cassette, which is great as it lets you use 11 spd HG bodied hubs. Running it with an M8100 chain per Ratio's recommendations. Tuning it was pretty straight forward but the "tuned" range is very small since the gaps between gears are smaller. Usually I had a several 1/4 turns on the barrel adjuster either way from the optimal tuned position to make micro adjustments. Now it can go from perfectly tuned to out of tune in about two 1/4 turns.
Where i can get this ratchet ? As it will be ideal for my needs

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply