Elilee XXE Crankset

[lightklein2]

Any News about the Elilee X-Noventa or the upcoming model?

[BikeEatSleepRepeat]

Bumping re X-trecento availability...?

[madcow]

In the skypivot thread, there was discussion of the compromises in stiffness with a titanium spindle.

Can anyone offer input on how this new trecento crank, which keeps the OD at 24mm, might compare in stiffness to skypivot's offering? And what about, say, good old DA? (I have a hard time justifying a compromise in stiffness for the weight savings here.)

A 24mm Ti spindle usually isn't a good idea. We've tested a lot of cranks over the last 13 years and a small ti spindle doesn't typically do well. The left crank arm is always far less stiff than the right because the force has to transfer through the spindle to reach the chainrings. A drive side arm does not have that same, long force path. Because of that spindles play a big role in total deflection of a crankset. Taking some average ranges from over the years we find that most 30mm spindles (Aluminum, Titanium and Carbon) typically produce a left arm that has 50-60% more deflection than the drive arm. 24mm steel spindles usually have a left arm that has about 75-85% as more deflection than right arms. By contrast 24mm Titaniums we've tested usually top 100% more left delfection than right. We could get into a long discussion about why but suffice it to say steel is the only common spindle material that is reasonably optimized at 24mm.

[toxin]

then you see some alix cranksets that have 24 mm alu spindles and you double facepalm

[ItalianEngineering]

Plus aluminum being softer.

Are there any numbers on effects of stiffness on efficiency? I wonder how relevant it is when you start thinking of the system as a whole, the flex in the shoe, ball of the foot.

[toxin]

not enough for it to matter to mortals i bet

[madcow]

Plus aluminum being softer.

Are there any numbers on effects of stiffness on efficiency? I wonder how relevant it is when you start thinking of the system as a whole, the flex in the shoe, ball of the foot.

The flex in the shoe and more importantly in the pedal spindle will magnify the deflection of the whole system increasing the total amount of deflection as each piece of the system is added in.

Quantifying that would be a fairly monumental task. Almost all of the energy that goes into deforming a crank gets returned back into the system. Think of it as a spring that is storing energy and returning it after a fraction of a second. The real question is how much of that energy is returned in a way that propels the bike forward and how much of it is returned in a way that is either neutral, or that hinders that propulsion. My gut says that since most of the energy is loaded at 3 o'clock, and will be returned when the crank nears 6 o'clock (which among a list of other things, is where the foot is not adequately loaded to resist that returned energy) that the marjority of that energy is either lost to unwinding while in a position that provides no positive gain, or even worse returned in a way that contributes to a clunky squared off pedal stroke for the rider. But of course intuition counts for nothing.

[RyanH]

I'm chronicling my journey with the Elilee carbon cranks in my T1sl build thread. My issues so far are with the Xcadey but beyond that the crank works, is quiet, aesthetically pleasing and is not noticeably noodly which is all I can ask for in a crank. I'll probably be swapping the PM in a bit so I'll check spindle wear then.

[neorc]

I'm chronicling my journey with the Elilee carbon cranks in my T1sl build thread. My issues so far are with the Xcadey but beyond that the crank works....

what problem is there with the Xcadey powermeter? I'm currently considering buying this. Thanks

[RDY]

It'd be nice if someone did a stiffness grouptest of the standard Elilee / Ti / Novanta, Cybrei, Skypivot standard / Ti, and Red D1 Dub.

[iamraymond]

I'm chronicling my journey with the Elilee carbon cranks in my T1sl build thread. My issues so far are with the Xcadey but beyond that the crank works, is quiet, aesthetically pleasing and is not noticeably noodly which is all I can ask for in a crank. I'll probably be swapping the PM in a bit so I'll check spindle wear then.

I had the XCadey spider PM (SRAM 8-bolt 110bcd) which I had to part ways with:
1) it read 10% higher than my Direto XR and 4iiii PM. Fortunately it was consistently 10% higher so I could add a factor to the PM. Once I did that the readings matched well with my other devices.
2) the iPhone app was super buggy and didn't detect the device so I had to borrow an Android device to add a factor to it.
3) I believe the chain line is meant for a disc brake bike. IME, this put the chain too far out and I could not get my FD setup properly.

[BikeTyson]

So if we say that a ti 24mm spindle is a bad idea, are there any 24mm spindle carbon crank options out there? Croder I thought had one coming out soon but I can't find it anymore. I have a bike with a BB86 bottom bracket and the larger Dub and 30mm spindles are not my first choice with this smaller BB.

[Hexsense]

So if we say that a ti 24mm spindle is a bad idea, are there any 24mm spindle carbon crank options out there?

Fundamentally, carbon fiber have better (in specific direction) stiffness to weight ratio but worse stiffness to volume ratio. Carbon tube are generally made much larger than steel tube. There are plenty of examples like carbon frame vs steel frame or carbon spokes vs steel spokes.

Within the constrain of 24mm diameter, and with sacrificial sleeve layer to limit the wear against hardened steel bearing race, I doubt carbon fiber can be mainstream axle material. More like some one off weightweenies showcase which isn't a practical one...

[BikeTyson]

So if we say that a ti 24mm spindle is a bad idea, are there any 24mm spindle carbon crank options out there?

Fundamentally, carbon fiber have better (in specific direction) stiffness to weight ratio but worse stiffness to volume ratio. Carbon tube are generally made much larger than steel tube. There are plenty of examples like carbon frame vs steel frame or carbon spokes vs steel spokes.

Within the constrain of 24mm diameter, and with sacrificial sleeve layer to limit the wear against hardened steel bearing race, I doubt carbon fiber can be mainstream axle material. More like some one off weightweenies showcase which isn't a practical one...

I don't want a carbon spindle. I want carbon cranks arms with a 24mm spindle.

I think Croder were developing one for their modular system.

[StiffWeenies]

Pretty sure the Croder Spirit Carbon will only be available in super short arm lengths

Rotor is also coming out with a 24mm spindle version of the Aldhu Carbon