2022/2023 Canyon ULTIMATE

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KalleWirsch
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:56 pm

by KalleWirsch

spartacus wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:45 pm
.... Specialized makes and sells a bike that you can remove the stem from without disconnecting anything, it's not that freaking hard, I am floored that people are in here apologizing for canyon for not offering cockpits as if that's even a remotely acceptable thing.
Let´s take a step back and look at the whole cockpit: There are 3 adjustments to make: Width, length and height.

2 of these 3 you can adjust with the Canyon without buying new items. Even without goint to a bike shop mechanic. Consumers can adjust height and width at home, compleely clean and reversibel.
Only the length ist not adjustable/exchangable at all.

At Specialized Roval you need to buy new items for length and width. For width you you have to remove brake hoses, which the normal consumer ist not able to do at home.
Same with height. Cutting a steerer tube isn´t anythint most consumers can do at home. And it´s non reversible at Specialized.

So, bottom line: At 2 of the 3 possible adjustments, the Canyon has an advantage. At one not.

Judge by our own.

HansZuDemFranz
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 11:39 am

by HansZuDemFranz

Does anybody know, if pro riders ride fixed-width cockpits instead of the consumer-level cockpits? I just cant imagine a pro-sprinter using the regular cockpit with all its flex.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

HansZuDemFranz wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:19 am
Does anybody know, if pro riders ride fixed-width cockpits instead of the consumer-level cockpits? I just cant imagine a pro-sprinter using the regular cockpit with all its flex.
Not even sure these guys rides as much of stock parts as we're told. Some claims has been made that Pinarello have bikes built by Sarto to.
The TV-reporter at the Vuelta was quite funny. A pro rider rode a BMC MPC, the Tv reporter told us that it was a BMC Roadmachine and all bikes are Roadmachine.
Also told that this bike cost 13000 Euro. The frameset cost 10000 Euro and it was Teammachine MPC.
Cavendish mechanic told a reporter, none of the other pros change fit as much as him.
Bike fitters have also changed ideals towards a more forward fit. So this idea that bike fit is fixed is BS.
You may ride a long cockpit but if for some reason your fit changes, it might alter your fit quite a deal. Saddle height, imagine if you change position of the cleats and have large feets. If you ride heel down and change ride style to heel up. This makes up for changes to.
Not strange at all really. They did a test and went to 10 bike fitters and none placed them same same.

A fixed cockpit, you can never angle the bars. If HT is 73-73.5 or 72.5 the angle of the bar is different.
If you're more fit in high season than off season you might even go for a shorter stem. None of this is as we all know possible on these cockpits
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
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Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

tomtom
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:01 am

by tomtom

HansZuDemFranz wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:19 am
Does anybody know, if pro riders ride fixed-width cockpits instead of the consumer-level cockpits? I just cant imagine a pro-sprinter using the regular cockpit with all its flex.
Yes they do and there are lots of pictures of that on the net....the "flex" is not relevant in sprinting I presume (also my own experience). Enough races won on aeroads with the CP0018 by sprinters/sprinting :mrgreen:!
Canyon Aeroad CFR
Canyon Grail CF

BigBoyND
Posts: 1347
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Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

ViperFFM wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:44 am
Canyon is still profiting off the very good price / quality ratio from a couple of years ago. No competitive rider is considering Canyon as a reasonable offer today due to lack of quality, fixed handlebar and overall siginficant price increase. Back in the days people bought Canyon because you couldnt go wrong in doing so; but this also meant that the people buying those things were recreational at best, dont giving a f*** about fit of the bike.
Sure there was a price increase but compared to Trek, Specialized, et. al., it's still far cheaper

ViperFFM
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:11 am
Location: Frankfurt am Main,DE

by ViperFFM

Not arguing about this but there are far more attractive alternatives including acutal dealer networks like Cube for e.g.
carbonLORD wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:23 am
I'm a CAT 3 Masters racer, not a dentist.

Cemicar
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:40 am

by Cemicar

Assume supplying three teams with bikes hurts Canyon's finance so much it brings this price hike. Specialized has been sponsoring stronger teams and now sells SL7 like Louis Vuitton.

ViperFFM
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:11 am
Location: Frankfurt am Main,DE

by ViperFFM

Not saying Spec is any better than Canyon (both suck in my opinion) but their marketing BS game is just the strongest in the game.

Canyon is raising prices only due to being owned by a PE fund and other hardcore investors. They will get to Spec pricing sooner than later.
carbonLORD wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:23 am
I'm a CAT 3 Masters racer, not a dentist.

Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

KalleWirsch wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:19 am
spartacus wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:45 pm
.... Specialized makes and sells a bike that you can remove the stem from without disconnecting anything, it's not that freaking hard, I am floored that people are in here apologizing for canyon for not offering cockpits as if that's even a remotely acceptable thing.
Let´s take a step back and look at the whole cockpit: There are 3 adjustments to make: Width, length and height.

2 of these 3 you can adjust with the Canyon without buying new items. Even without goint to a bike shop mechanic. Consumers can adjust height and width at home, compleely clean and reversibel.
Only the length ist not adjustable/exchangable at all.

At Specialized Roval you need to buy new items for length and width. For width you you have to remove brake hoses, which the normal consumer ist not able to do at home.
Same with height. Cutting a steerer tube isn´t anythint most consumers can do at home. And it´s non reversible at Specialized.

So, bottom line: At 2 of the 3 possible adjustments, the Canyon has an advantage. At one not.

Judge by our own.
The Canyon can make width adjustments up to a point. And beyond those it's literally impossible. On the Tarmac you can get just as wide or narrow bar as you'd want.

spartacus
Posts: 1049
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

KalleWirsch wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:19 am
spartacus wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:45 pm
.... Specialized makes and sells a bike that you can remove the stem from without disconnecting anything, it's not that freaking hard, I am floored that people are in here apologizing for canyon for not offering cockpits as if that's even a remotely acceptable thing.
Let´s take a step back and look at the whole cockpit: There are 3 adjustments to make: Width, length and height.

2 of these 3 you can adjust with the Canyon without buying new items. Even without goint to a bike shop mechanic. Consumers can adjust height and width at home, compleely clean and reversibel.
Only the length ist not adjustable/exchangable at all.

At Specialized Roval you need to buy new items for length and width. For width you you have to remove brake hoses, which the normal consumer ist not able to do at home.
Same with height. Cutting a steerer tube isn´t anythint most consumers can do at home. And it´s non reversible at Specialized.

So, bottom line: At 2 of the 3 possible adjustments, the Canyon has an advantage. At one not.

Judge by our own.
Give me a break, also depending on the model the hoses on the specialized can be/are routed externally. You also don't have to cut the steerer to adjust the height, they include an open top stem cap. Last thing canyons bars only go to 38cm so you (I) literally can't even get the narrow bars I want on a canyon at all, ever.

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C36
Posts: 2471
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

Not even38… 39cm if not mistaken.

Saying “you can adjust 2 out of 3” like it’s an achievement shows how low proper fitting has drop in some people minds. Furthermore it’s not 2/3 but 2/4 since you can’t adjust bars tilt.

KalleWirsch
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:56 pm

by KalleWirsch

All in my opinion as a observer what I see on the streets in Germany:
Lina wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:35 pm
The Canyon can make width adjustments up to a point. And beyond those it's literally impossible. On the Tarmac you can get just as wide or narrow bar as you'd want.
Technically correct, but this "up to a point" is in the consumer world totally fine for 99% of consumers. This is my experience in Germany, the home ground of Canyon. These changes of more than 4cm to bars is not a mass business. Canyon is for mass business, not for niche business. If it fit´s, buy it. If not, then Canyon is not the righht brand for you. I guess this is their philosophy and they sell like hell.

spartacus wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:34 pm
Give me a break, also depending on the model the hoses on the specialized can be/are routed externally. You also don't have to cut the steerer to adjust the height, they include an open top stem cap.
Then you compare a cockpit with external cables and spacers above the stem to a fully integrated and clean cockpit ;)

ViperFFM wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:25 pm
Canyon is raising prices only due to being owned by a PE fund and other hardcore investors. They will get to Spec pricing sooner than later.
If they do, they will fail. I know people happy to spend 13.000€ for a Tarmac, but not for a Canyon, because here in Germany you see Canyon bikes literally at every corner and in every rider group >3 riders. It´s like a VW Golf and people in this price range of >10.000€ don´t buy these bikes because of pure technical reasons, they buy them also because of the brand.
Canyon tried to solve this with their "CFR" batch, but in my opinion this is too less and not the same level.

Now, back to the bike: Looking forward to see the first real life checks and pictures here. Would be nice if an owner of the old Ultimate can compare it to the new one without the marketing bla bla :)

HansZuDemFranz
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 11:39 am

by HansZuDemFranz

tomtom wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:12 pm
HansZuDemFranz wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:19 am
Does anybody know, if pro riders ride fixed-width cockpits instead of the consumer-level cockpits? I just cant imagine a pro-sprinter using the regular cockpit with all its flex.
Yes they do and there are lots of pictures of that on the net....the "flex" is not relevant in sprinting I presume (also my own experience). Enough races won on aeroads with the CP0018 by sprinters/sprinting :mrgreen:!
Are there any pictures of a pro bik, where you can actually see the adjustable part of the cockpit? Because obviously the "pro-level cockpit" would look the same with bartape.
My concern wouldnt really be about the perfromance, but rarther about the feel of the handlebar. Even I noticed the flexy handlebar immediately when I rode the Aeroad SLX, so i cant imagine what a true sprinter would think about that.

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C36
Posts: 2471
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

HansZuDemFranz wrote:
Are there any pictures of a pro bik, where you can actually see the adjustable part of the cockpit? Because obviously the "pro-level cockpit" would look the same with bartape.
Many pictures showed the screws on pro bikes.

Edit: https://www.matosvelo.fr/index.php?post ... -de-france

by Weenie


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BigBoyND
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

ViperFFM wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:25 pm
Canyon is raising prices only due to being owned by a PE fund and other hardcore investors. They will get to Spec pricing sooner than later.
What? The largest shareholder is the founder and there are no "hardcore investors" involved. The PE firms are involved because their owners are passionate about cycling.

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